+- Atlanta Falcons Talk (http://atlantafalconstalk.com)
+-- Forum: Falcons Fans Message Boards (/Forum-Falcons-Fans-Message-Boards)
+--- Forum: Talk About The Falcons & So Much More (/Forum-Talk-About-The-Falcons-So-Much-More)
+--- Thread: Playcalling or Execution? (/Thread-Playcalling-or-Execution)
RE: Playcalling or Execution? - Tandy - 09-15-2010 04:50 PM
(09-15-2010 04:46 PM)Radical Wrote:(09-15-2010 04:37 PM)JKH5785 Wrote: We are very predictable! and that is play-calling
It's hard to execute when the defense has an idea what's coming
as far as the spots, our offense should be leaving it up 1/4 - 3/4 of yard being the difference of a first down or a punt.
How are we predictable, and how does it relate to Mularkey? Ryan threw to Roddy a lot when he ran the deep out, but there were other receivers on the field that Ryan can choose from(including an open Douglas running a seam route on the interception).
Just so you know, Mularkey doesn't tell Ryan to throw a deep out to Roddy, and Mularkey didn't tell Ryan to throw to him 22 times either(I say 22 because one of the 23 was a clear throw away).
5 Throw aways - 3 drops and 2 defensed plays or poor throws. Overall - Roddy caught 13 and was responsible for 3 of the other passes. The rest was not on him.
RE: Playcalling or Execution? - atl falcon 89 - 09-15-2010 04:54 PM
(09-15-2010 04:47 PM)Tandy Wrote:(09-15-2010 04:42 PM)atl falcon 89 Wrote:(09-15-2010 04:36 PM)Tandy Wrote: OK, I am loathe to even say this, but maybe Gonzo was referring to the spots. Although they won't ever admit it - you could see it was aggravating Coach Smith and the players several times.
I haven't mentioned this, only because I didn't want to go there with this game, but when I was breaking down the game frame by frame to get the OL pocket hold time on passes - I noticed very distinctly that Atlanta was getting spotted 1/4 - 3/4 yards behind where the ball hit on many, many plays. By the same token, Steelers were getting very generous spots by about the same amount. At first, I was like - yeah right - but the more I watched - the more I saw it. It wasn't as blatant as some of the ones in New England last year - but it definitely cost us some first downs.
I even went to look it up after reviewing the game to see if it was the same officiating crew that was over our game last year in NE.
Tandy I don't know if its bad luck or if the conspiracy nuts are dead on but sometimes it definatly does feel like teams like the Saints and Pats get favorable calls where other teams get the short end of the stick.
Maybe we're just seeing what we want to see or maybe the refs are letting team history cloud thier judgment(ie falcons are a bad team so if its close they probally didn't get that first down) (you can laugh but thats an open way of life in the star driven NBA)
Maybe the NBA is not the best comparison considering the Donaghy debacle!
Actually I'd almost say it makes it the perfect comparison. Everyone complained about the refs being biased and sure enough at least one of them was. But we're talking about a sport here where if there is a close foul call the guy selling the most jearsys and nike ads is going to come out on top.
RE: Playcalling or Execution? - BullRush - 09-15-2010 04:55 PM
(09-15-2010 04:50 PM)Radical Wrote:(09-15-2010 04:48 PM)BullRush Wrote: It'd be different if he scripted everything and the QB had no option. a la Greg Knapp
Oh dear God, don't remind me of that.
That's one time for sure I can say for certain that OC was a VERY big problem.
What kind of OC has 2 WRs running 0 yard out patterns right next to each other, or every WR on the field running a curl on a naked boot?
"Lookey i dwawed a peacock , jimmy"
Greg liked making pretty designs in his play book.
RE: Playcalling or Execution? - Tandy - 09-15-2010 05:30 PM
Does anybody remember that "Greg Knapp" playbook that we had in a drawing thread over on AFMB? That still cracks me up!
RE: Playcalling or Execution? - RnB - 09-15-2010 06:14 PM
(09-15-2010 05:30 PM)Tandy Wrote: Does anybody remember that "Greg Knapp" playbook that we had in a drawing thread over on AFMB? That still cracks me up!
Vaguely. There are alot of creative people over at the AFMB. Some of the stuff they come up with is hilarious.
On the topic of whether its the playcalling or execution, anyone that says it isnt BOTH is just fooling themselves and being obstinate.
The Playcalling - There is no way on earth you can ignore how quickly Mularkey adapted his playcalling early in the Steelers game. I think it started with the 3rd series (Maybe late in the 2nd). He started calling less plays up the middle and started going to the edges and sidelines. This right here is why we actually started moving the ball and gaining momentum. If that isnt something POSITIVE you can take away from the game, I dont know what it. Yes, MM is prone to call the same play, or a mirrored version of the play, multiple times in quick succession. This is something I can agree with and say MM needs to do a better job of. It usually happens when that particular play isnt correctly diagnosed by the defense the first time. He keeps going back to it until they change their personell or formations to stop it.
The Execution - I am going to go ahead and say it and get it out of the way; Matt Ryan needs to step the fuck up. Period. Ive made several topics and posts regarding Matt and what the expectations should be with him going into his third season as a starter. The bottom line is, he is too smart for his own good. He is too focused on safe throws and high percentage routes. Matt Ryan is the one person who COULD give us deeper passes and more epxlosive plays in the passing game, he has just refused to do it. I dont know if hes afraid of messing up, too timid, or just doesnt have confidence in himself to make those riskier throws on a consistent basis. Its time to put your game face on, Matt Ryan, and show everyone that has called you the next ELITE QB that we arent delusional. You have shown glimpses of how great you CAN be, over the past two seasons. Its time to do it on a consistent basis.
RE: Playcalling or Execution? - GSUPantherCJ - 09-15-2010 06:39 PM
I don't know if this is just me, but ever since the second year began I realized that he wasn't spreading the ball around as much. Remember 08 when he would hit 6 to 7 different receivers per game.
Now a days, TG88 is his only read, RW84 is his only wideout. Jenkins, Douglas, Weems, or whoever else may only get one pass thrown their way.
Someone needs to sit him down and tell him: "It's okay... you don't need to throw towards TG. Hit the open man whomever it may be."
And then again, playcalling the first year seemed more diverse than what we had the second year and this year... A lot of cut back runs... Spreads... Slip screens to Norwood... Throwing the deep ball happened at least three times a game.
RE: Playcalling or Execution? - Tandy - 09-15-2010 06:59 PM
He targeted 8 receivers - but only hit 7 (Finn was a miss)
Of his 44 passes -
Roddy - attributed with 23 targeted passes - but 5 were throw aways - so really targeted 18 times (13 catches)
Tony - targeted 5 times (2 catches)
Finn - targeted 1 time (0 catches)
Harry - targeted 3 times (3 catches)
Snelling - targeted 1 time (1 catch)
Norwood - targeted 3 times (1 catch)
Turner - targeted 1 time (1 catch)
Peelle - targeted 2 times (2 catches)
Weems - targeted 4 times (4 catches)
+ the one throw away where he was originally called sacked - then it was reversed - no target named on that one.
RE: Playcalling or Execution? - poutlipper - 09-15-2010 07:12 PM
(09-15-2010 06:59 PM)Tandy Wrote: He targeted 8 receivers - but only hit 7 (Finn was a miss)
Of his 44 passes -
Roddy - attributed with 23 targeted passes - but 5 were throw aways - so really targeted 18 times (13 catches)
Tony - targeted 5 times (2 catches)
Finn - targeted 1 time (0 catches)
Harry - targeted 3 times (3 catches)
Snelling - targeted 1 time (1 catch)
Norwood - targeted 3 times (1 catch)
Turner - targeted 1 time (1 catch)
Peelle - targeted 2 times (2 catches)
Weems - targeted 4 times (4 catches)
+ the one throw away where he was originally called sacked - then it was reversed - no target named on that one.
Thanks for the numbers Tandy. That's exactly what I wanted to see, between Weems and Douglas they were 7 for 7 for 75 yards.
Again, for further breakdown, I don't know if this simply means Ryan is zoning into Roddy and Tony, or he doesn't have enough time to get to his 3rd and 4th reads, or if we're just not running enough plays with options other than RW/TG. The numbers say that we have other weapons, we're just not going to them enough.
RE: Playcalling or Execution? - Robb4242 - 09-15-2010 07:34 PM
(09-15-2010 04:13 PM)MattIceRyanMVP2 Wrote:I agree with you that it's a combination of both play calling and execution. But I don't believe that we're running plays over & over. I doubt we run the exact same play from the same formation more than 3 or 4 times in a game (unless it's worked & the D hasn't stopped it all game). Similar plays, sure, but not exactly the same play.(09-15-2010 04:11 PM)BullRush Wrote: I say its completely execution. No OC will call a perfect game, but think about the plays that were over thrown, passes dropped, blocking assignments missed in the Steelers game alone. If they were executed the offensive woes disappear immediately
It's both(play calling and execution), and that's just football.
When you say that no OC can call a perfect game, I agree but any OC knows(except MM) that you cannot run the same darn plays over and over. A 7 year old kid knows that.
Trent Dilfer said something that made perfect sense today on the Collin Cowherd show and I believe that it applies to MM. Basically what he was saying (talking about the Jets) is that if you are a run first or a good rushing team, you need to pick up chunk yardage in the passing game. You can't play a short route, west coast style passing game with a run first offense. We've got to take deep and intermediate shots with the passing game for our offense to be effective and keep the D honest. I actually believe we started to see that in the Pittsburgh game. We didn't take any deep shots, but we did throw more intermediate routes than I can recall us doing in a while, going back to last year.
So, while everyone is complaining, I do see a change in our playcalling and the loosening of the reigns on Ryan a little bit. I think the deep shots will start to come, and if we can be consistent with them, maybe our running game gets back to form. One of the reasons I think we were so successful in 2008 was the opening pass to Jenkins, that set the tone that we were not afraid to take shots down the field and it opened up the games for Turner. We need to get back to that IMO.
RE: Playcalling or Execution? - Peyton - 09-15-2010 07:45 PM
I think it's both really. Matt was a little too depended on the out patterns to Roddy the other day, but Mularkey contributed to that somewhat by continuing to call plays with that route.
Then again, in all fairness, maybe it was just that the Falcons were playing a great defense.
We are going to find out in the coming weeks.