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RE: Saints Bounty Thread - AsylumGuido - 05-16-2012 01:20 AM
Duplicate post
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - AsylumGuido - 05-16-2012 01:24 AM
(05-15-2012 11:13 PM)phocis850 Wrote: I agree with this. Guido, you are ignoring the obvious and too close minded on the matter.
The problem that you are facing is that you are trying to tell us Falcons fans that the Saints are better than this.
#1, we don't care.
#2, we don't believe the "conspiracy".
#3, we've been through this bs before.
#4, we KNOW when there's smoke there's fire.
#5, Goodell cares too much about his own job to do something stupid.
What you are saying is that Goodell is not capable of making an unbiased decision, when in fact, your very owner helped to vote him into position. You are saying that the guy can't connect dots correctly, yet he has all the findings. I'm just not understanding your logic on how this guy is so dumb but makes $10million per year being so dumb.
What I am saying is that Roger Goodell is more than capable of making a very biased decision after he and his hired doctors spent several years immediately after he took office submitting false testimony that concussions suffered while playing the game had no detrimental affect on the player's in later life.
Goodell has already done something stupid. Something very stupid and now he is trying to cover his and his league's ass.
Do you not remember all of this?
From the New York Times.
Head Injuries in Football
After the study results were reported, Representative John Conyers Jr., a Michigan Democrat and chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, held a hearing on the impact of head injuries sustained by N.F.L. players.
The league and Commissioner Roger Goodell had insisted that the N.F.L.'s policies were safe and that no third-party involvement was necessary, pointing to research by its committee on concussions as proof. But after an embarrassing hearing on the issue before the House Judiciary Committee in which the league was compared to the tobacco industry, the doctors leading the league's committee resigned.
In December 2009, the league announced that it would impose its most stringent rules to date on managing concussions, requiring players who exhibit any significant sign of concussion to be removed from a game or practice and be barred from returning the same day.
Several members of Congress portrayed Mr. Goodell and the league as impeding proper player care and obfuscating the long-term effects of concussions. The league and a former co-chairman of its committee on brain injuries, Dr. Ira Casson, have consistently played down studies and anecdotal evidence linking retired N.F.L. players to brain damage commonly associated with boxers and dementia rates several times that of the national population.
The N.F.L. Players Association called for the removal of Dr. Casson, saying that he is too biased to lead the research and policy group.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - Beef - 05-16-2012 01:25 AM
(05-16-2012 01:06 AM)AsylumGuido Wrote: Okay. How about this? This was published over two months ago on March 9th! Here is the link:
Mike Ornstein's association with New Orleans Saints and bounty scandal a perplexing situation
Among the 18,000 documents league investigators examined is an email from Ornstein to Saints' coaches last season in which he pledged money for a knockout blow to Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers before the NFL kickoff game, according to a source familiar with the situation.
That same source insists Ornstein sent the message in jest. Payton reportedly told NFL investigators last week he did not read the email.
Whether the NFL buys either claim remains to be seen. This isn't a court of law. The league can and will rule on its own volition.
____________________________________________
I have put up with a lot of shit here but I am making nothing up. This was reported two frickin' months ago!!!
Two months ago before any of you even knew about the email it was already identified as "in jest"! This isn't anything new or anything I made up.
Two months ago Sean Payton TOLD the league when he first talked to them that he had never read the email ... just as I said!!
Some of you claim to know so much about what is going on but are so misinformed about the facts.
Published by whom? And who supposedly knows this alleged source close to the situation? And who is this "source"?
Sounds like some made up BS by another biased NO media lemming. Funny there's not been one mention on ESPN or anywhere else of some source who has this info.
For all we know, it could have just been one of the attorneys rep'ing Payton who is "the source". And if it's just some lackey of that sort, then it has no credibility because they will say anything for their client or friend.
Nobody has actually heard Payton say he never read the email and that it was an ongoing joke. All you've quote is 3rd or 4th hand grapevine conjecture.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - AsylumGuido - 05-16-2012 01:42 AM
(05-16-2012 01:25 AM)Beef Wrote: Published by whom? And who supposedly knows this alleged source close to the situation? And who is this "source"?
Sounds like some made up BS by another biased NO media lemming. Funny there's not been one mention on ESPN or anywhere else of some source who has this info.
For all we know, it could have just been one of the attorneys rep'ing Payton who is "the source". And if it's just some lackey of that sort, then it has no credibility because they will say anything for their client or friend.
Nobody has actually heard Payton say he never read the email and that it was an ongoing joke. All you've quote is 3rd or 4th hand grapevine conjecture.
That's what happens when you only listen to sports radio or only watch ESPN. You miss out on the real news.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - cooperbh - 05-16-2012 01:55 AM
(05-16-2012 01:20 AM)AsylumGuido Wrote: Duplicate post
What else is new?
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - AsylumGuido - 05-16-2012 01:57 AM
(05-16-2012 01:55 AM)cooperbh Wrote: What else is new?
Not much. How are you dong?
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - Beef - 05-16-2012 01:58 AM
(05-16-2012 12:51 AM)AsylumGuido Wrote: No. None of us have seen real evidence other that the declaration and that didn't proclaim anything.
I have a serious question for you. Do you believe in justice? Right now you are acting like you believe in an end not the means to that end. You want the Saints to be guilty so bad that you care nothing about knowing the truth.
I am beginning to believe that you are beginning to fear the truth because it may not confirm your hopes.
The problem is that those who investigated have no checks or balances. And don't try to tell me that some lawyer paid by the league is a check or balance. Those who investigated have a very real reason to find something to punish that would show organized player intent on injury to players.
You, sir, act like there really is evidence when you haven't seen any at all. Would not you think that if Goodell had anything stronger than everything he has released and been publicly questioned about that he might share even a tad of it? Why release and base your public case based solely upon weak inferences?
Except the declaration did proclaim everything. As I've already gone through the proper interpretation of its logical and rational context, you have chosen to keep ignoring it and misrepresenting it. Hargrove was punished for injury bounties. He made the declaration to try to reduce his punishment. If the declaration wasn't about injury bounties, then it becomes pointless because the league wouldn't reduce his punishment for passing blame to Williams and Vitt for anything other than what Hargrove was punished for.
How you don't understand that is crazy. There has to be injury bounties for the declaration to have any purpose at all.
As for "justice", if all of this happened to some other team than the Saints, I'd have the exact same opinion.
I don't believe there is a conspiracy.
I believe Goodell has plenty of legitimate evidence and is simply safeguarding it for the sake of the sources safety and to insure others will not be afraid to come forward in the future without puting themselves at risk.
I just don't believe Goodell and the rest of the league officials and attorneys are so dumb and could be so careless they would lie and conspire at the enormous risk of such a huge and devistating backlash to the sport.
My logic tells me the declaration confirms injury bounties.
My logic tells me that Orenstein has participated in bounties with the Saints.
Coy Wire confirmed GW created and promoted a pay for injury bounty program at two prior coaching stints with other teams (in an interview on Atlanta radio).
I don't believe GW stopped doing it with the Saints, especially after his recording and obvious gestures that I am certain confirmed money was involved for hurting other teams players.
I also don't believe Mary Jo White is so dumb and desperate for money she would conspire to lie or exaggerate and risk her reputation along with her firms which would in turn be risking losing 50x more money as dozens of multi billion dollar corporations left them.
And when I add all this up, I'm just convinced there was a pay for injury bounty program and everyone punished for it got what they deserved. And again, if it were some other team, I'd feel the same way.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - Beef - 05-16-2012 02:08 AM
(05-16-2012 01:42 AM)AsylumGuido Wrote: That's what happens when you only listen to sports radio or only watch ESPN. You miss out on the real news.
I asked some questions. Are you going to fucking answer them or not?
Also, what's the difference if you read an article or statement and I hear the same article or statement read out load on the radio?
Are you too stupid to realize we've got the same information? Or are you going to keep ignoring what I've actually said so you can try to be clever and take shots at radio as a source of info? (which is freaking ignorant as it is).
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - Drathdon - 05-16-2012 05:03 AM
Guido, here is a simple logic test you should pass easily.
The NFL has come out and said there was a bounty on Cam Newton. Correct?
There has been nothing shown whatsoever mentioning Cam other than that statement. Correct?
That would mean, unless you believe they made up Cam's name from thin air (and even for you, that would be a stretch... implying the NFL was that reckless and far gone), that there is some "evidence" we have not seen. Correct? If we have seen all the "evidence" - which you think you can disprove - then were did Cam's name come from?
So since you know, via these simple steps, there is stuff you have not seen, why not just wait to form a complete opinion until you have that "evidence"? Keep posting the news as it comes out, and comment on it, but don't set your heels so firmly in place. Otherwise your going to feel like I did after doing what you are doing for Vick (it wasn't him, it was his friends/relatives using his money without him knowing) right up until the Feds showed they had proof he choked and killed dogs with his own hands.
Trust me, you don't want that feeling. I will never turn against Ryan/Smith/TD for any mistakes they make in the future (acknowledge them, but not turn against them) because they pulled me from the burning wreckage of misery what my fandom had become at that point.
Just friendly advice, fan to fan.
Go Falcons!
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - Falconidae - 05-16-2012 08:54 AM
so Guido, I ask about:
"When shown the email during the course of the investigation, Coach Payton stated that it referred to a "bounty" on Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers."
You reply with:
He [Payton] said it was/could be referring to a bounty. It doesn't mean that a real "bounty" was in place. He also stated, not included in Goodell's release, that he had never seen that email it was presented.
Your "proof" for that statement is:
"Among the 18,000 documents league investigators examined is an email from Ornstein to Saints' coaches last season in which he pledged money for a knockout blow to Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers before the NFL kickoff game, according to a source familiar with the situation.
That same source insists Ornstein sent the message in jest. Payton reportedly told NFL investigators last week he did not read the email."
Which says nothing about Payton saying "was/could" or Payton saying it was a joke. If Payton claims he didn't say that or that the NFL misrepresented what he said about the email, then you have a point, but you haven't shown me that.
So, do you have a quote from Payton where he denies the bounty email or claims it was a joke. Payton, not an unnamed source.
And why wouldn't Payton simply state it was a joke to begin with?