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RE: Saints Bounty Thread - ATLBound - 11-30-2012 06:56 PM
(11-30-2012 06:10 PM)AsylumGuido Wrote: Williams absolutely denied any bounties as part of his ongoing program. He said it was a pay for performance program which he admitted was against the rules and he was wrong for running it. He claimed the alleged bounty (singular) was not part of his program and he had no further knowledge of it and never saw or received any money for it.
Unfortunately, all individuals attending the appeal hearing the past two days have been ordered to remain completely silent by Tagliabue on any of the proceedings. Yesterday it was Cerullo being grilled for nine hours. Today Williams was in there for about five hours.
You are half correct. He denied it as part of HIS program, but he never denied a bounty or bounties going on in the locker room.
If he was going to deny a bounty, then there would be no reason to, as you say, do what he was told and admit to the 10k bounty from Vilma.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - AsylumGuido - 12-09-2012 09:06 PM
Suspended New Orleans Saints players reject settlement offer from NFL in bounty scandal
New York - It appears the suspended players in the New Orleans Saints bounty hearings will stand their ground and wait for a decision from former NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue early this week as the players rejected a settlement deal from the NFL on Friday, a source said Sunday morning.
The source added possible suspension reductions for Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma (season-long suspension) and defensive end Will Smith (four games), along with former Saints defenders Scott Fujita (one) and Anthony Hargrove (seven, with five already served) were contingent on the players agreeing to a statement full of untruths designed to protect current NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and his standing in the NFL.
Phil Williams, Hargrove's agent, confirmed there was a settlement offered by the NFL on "The NFL Today" on CBS Sunday morning.
"But it's definitely not acceptable," Williams said. "It's very curious to us that we would receive one at this point since he's already exceeded the number of games he was suspended for in the first place."
When asked if there's a settlement of any kind that would satisfy him, Hargrove said, "At this point, I don't think so."
There's been a sense since the witness portion of the New Orleans Saints bounty hearings ended last Monday that Tagliabue will make his ruling on possible punishments early this week.
"We will continue to respect Mr. Tagliabue's direction to refrain from commenting on the proceedings," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said Sunday morning.
Vilma said last Monday's proceedings went well, but he added that he said the same thing the last time he met with the league regarding his alleged ties to the bounty scandal.
"I think Paul (Tagliabue) seemed a little bit more receptive," Vilma said after testifying in New Orleans earlier this week.
Vilma and Smith will play in today's game against the New York Giants at MetLife Stadium and have been able to play since they appealed their suspensions.
"I've said from Day 1 that it's good to have this process to be able to cross examine these people who said these things that didn't take place and to have the (NFL)PA be able to interview these guys and all this other stuff, and we think this is a fair process," Smith said earlier this week. "Well, fair in the sense that there was a hearing of some sort. The fact that we were able to sit in and listen to these people get cross examined was interesting and needed."
ESPN first reported the rejected settlement.
_______________________________________________________
The "source" was a little harsh in his description of the proposed settlement, no?
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - AsylumGuido - 12-09-2012 09:36 PM
(11-30-2012 06:56 PM)ATLBound Wrote: You are half correct. He denied it as part of HIS program, but he never denied a bounty or bounties going on in the locker room.
If he was going to deny a bounty, then there would be no reason to, as you say, do what he was told and admit to the 10k bounty from Vilma.
He also never verified the presence of any bounties going on in the locker room.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - AsylumGuido - 12-10-2012 08:06 PM
AP source: Tagliabue bounty ruling coming Tuesday
Former NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue will rule Tuesday afternoon on the latest round of player appeals in the NFL's bounty probe, and any potential punishment will be delayed by a week, a person familiar with the decision said.
The delay is designed to give a federal judge in New Orleans the opportunity to rule on pending motions to throw out the suspensions and remove Tagliabue as the appointed arbitrator for the player appeals to the league, said the person, who spoke to The Associated Press Monday on condition of anonymity because no rulings have been announced.
The NFL's decision to delay potential sanctions for four current or former Saints also means linebacker Jonathan Vilma and defensive end Will Smith may play Sunday when New Orleans hosts Tampa Bay.
If the sanctioned players find Tagliabue's decision palatable, that could finally bring the bounty saga to an end more than nine months after the NFL first made public its probe of New Orleans' cash-for-hits program. If not, it will be up to U.S. District Judge Ginger Berrigan to disqualify Tagliabue or let his ruling stand.
Current and former Saints players and coaches have acknowledged the existence of a performance pool that rewarded key defensive plays including hard, legal tackles, but have denied organizing or participating in a program designed to intentionally injure opponents.
If Vilma, Smith, Cleveland linebacker Scott Fujita and free agent defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove get the ruling they seek, it would discredit an NFL probe - overseen by Commissioner Roger Goodell - which covered three seasons and gathered about 50,000 pages of documents.
The probe concluded that Vilma and Smith were ring-leaders of a cash-for-hits program that rewarded injurious tackles labeled as ''cart-offs'' and ''knockouts.''
The NFL also concluded that Hargrove lied to NFL investigators to help cover up the program.
Vilma received full-season suspension, while Smith was docked four games. Hargrove initially received an eight game suspension that was later trimmed to seven games, but for practical purposes, was reduced to two games because he was given credit for five games he missed as a free agent after being cut by Green Bay before the regular season opener. Fujita had his initial suspension reduced from three games to one, with the league saying that he failed in his duty as a defensive leader to discourage the bounty program run by former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams.
Goodell also suspended Williams indefinitely, while banning Saints head coach Sean Payton for a full season. Saints general manager Mickey Loomis got an half-season ban and Saints assistant head coach Joe Vitt served six games.
While the Saints have said they will not allow the bounty sanctions to be a ''built-in excuse'' for failure, the club is now 5-8 following a three-game skid that has all but assured New Orleans will miss the playoffs for the first time since 2008.
Tagliabue's ruling will come after a new round of hearings that for the first time allowed Vilma's attorneys and the NFL Players Association, which represents the other three punished players, to cross examine key NFL witnesses in the probe. Those witnesses included Williams and former Saints assistant Mike Cerullo, who was fired after the 2009 season and whose email to the league, accusing the Saints of being ''a dirty organization,'' jump-started the probe.
Other witnesses included Vilma, Vitt, NFL investigators and former Minnesota head coach Brad Childress. Childress had told the NFL in 2010 that one of his players, Jimmy Kennedy, heard from Hargrove that there was a bounty on then-Vikings quarterback Brett Favre in the NFC title game.
Also for the first time, the NFL allowed players' attorneys to review all of the documents the NFL had collected, including some in which people stated that the players never did what they were accused of, the person who spoke with AP said.
The NFL tried late last week to settle the matter to avoid a ruling by Tagliabue or the judge, but the players rejected the NFL's proposal. Although the offer would have reduced or eliminated some suspensions, players still would have been fined and forced to admit guilt, said the person who spoke to AP.
Hargrove's agent, Phil Williams, confirmed the settlement offer in an interview with CBS on Sunday, but did not go into detail. In a phone interview with the AP on Monday, the agent said Hargrove already ''had been punished as bad as NFL can possibly punish a player.''
''Not only did he lose a year, but the NFL dragged his name through the mud and lied about him,'' he said.
Several teams inquired about Hargrove after Green Bay had cut him, Phil Williams said, but they all expressed reservations about signing the veteran defensive lineman in before the bounty matter had been resolved.
''I got calls from the beginning of the season until the middle of the season,'' the agent said, ''and then they stopped.''
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - Drathdon - 12-11-2012 01:33 AM
Why would they announce delaying possible punishment for a week to allow the NO Judge a chance to overstep her authority unless there were punishments coming?
This is far from over. Grab your popcorn for the whining!
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - AsylumGuido - 12-11-2012 11:21 AM
(12-11-2012 01:33 AM)Drathdon Wrote: Why would they announce delaying possible punishment for a week to allow the NO Judge a chance to overstep her authority unless there were punishments coming?
This is far from over. Grab your popcorn for the whining!
Oh, I am fully expecting punishments. The NFL have backed themselves into a corner. That's why they keep offering reduced deals to get Vilma and the NFLPA to drop their suits, but the players are having none of that. The league has already backed off of the original claims of ongoing bounties on specific players. The only thing the league has shown proof of is the existence of a performance pool exactly like the one they endorsed for the Packers several years back. The Saints publicly acknowledged the ongoing pool from the beginning. But, that wasn't why they were punished.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - AsylumGuido - 12-11-2012 11:26 AM
(12-11-2012 01:33 AM)Drathdon Wrote: Why would they announce delaying possible punishment for a week to allow the NO Judge a chance to overstep her authority unless there were punishments coming?
This is far from over. Grab your popcorn for the whining!
Just thinking ... perhaps Judge Berrigan asked them to postpone any potential punishments until after she ruled. She could have told them that she would exercise the requested restraining order immediately if they didn't delay. I can't really see them postponing any potential penalties out of the blue.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - Peyton - 12-11-2012 02:38 PM
Tagliabue has vacated all suspensions. The players win. Goodell loses.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - mdrake34 - 12-11-2012 02:47 PM
(12-11-2012 02:38 PM)Peyton Wrote: Tagliabue has vacated all suspensions. The players win. Goodell loses.
Looks like he affirmed Goodell's factual findings, but indeed vacated the suspensions. Trying to wipe the pie off of the League's face at this point.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - mdrake34 - 12-11-2012 02:48 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2012/12/11/paul-tagliabue-bounty-appeals-ruling-jonathan-vilma-will-smith-anthony-hargrove-scott-fujita-roger-goodell/1759923/
1:31PM EST December 11. 2012 - The implicated players in the New Orleans Saints bounty case got the appeals process they wanted.
And now, they have the verdict they wanted, too.
On Tuesday, former NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue vacated all player discipline – suspensions and fines – levied by current commissioner Roger Goodell, according to league spokesman Greg Aiello, even though Tagliabue affirmed the factual findings Goodell made in the case.
This means the suspensions Goodell imposed on Jonathan Vilma, Will Smith, Anthony Hargrove and Scott Fujita have been wiped off the board for now.
The NFL could continue the battle in court, though it remains unclear at this point if it will do so. More than likely, the league will want the long-running headache to go away.
"Unlike Saints' broad organizational misconduct, player appeals involve sharply focused issues of alleged individual player misconduct in several different aspects ... My affirmation of Commissioner Goodell's findings could certainly justify the issuance of fines. However, this entire case has been contaminated by the coaches and others in the Saints' organization," Aiello quoted Tagliabue via Twitter.
Tagliabue's savvy decision appears to serve several purposes: It likely persuades Vilma to drop his defamation lawsuit against Goodell; it allows Goodell to save face by affirming his findings; and it could wipe clean a scandal at a time when the NFL is in the midst of a public relations nightmare following a murder-suicide by Chiefs linebacker Jovan Belcher and the death of a teammate in a car crash involving Cowboys' Josh Brent, who has been charged with intoxication manslaughter.
"Having reviewed the testimony very carefully, including documentary evidence that is at the center of the conflict, and having assessed the credibility of the four central witnesses on these matters, I find there is more than enough evidence to support Commissioner Goodell's findings that Mr. Vilma offered such a bounty (on Brett Favre)," Tagliabue wrote.
Current and former Saints players and coaches have acknowledged the existence of a performance pool that rewarded key defensive plays including hard, legal tackles, but have denied organizing or participating in a program designed to intentionally injure opponents.
The original probe, overseen by Commissioner Roger Goodell, covered three seasons and gathered roughly 50,000 pages of documents. That investigation concluded that Vilma and Smith were ring-leaders of a cash-for-hits program that rewarded injurious tackles labeled as "cart-offs" and "knockouts."
The NFL also concluded that Hargrove lied to NFL investigators to help cover up the program.
None of the players have served a game of their suspensions yet and are allowed to play while appeals are pending. Shortly before the regular season, the initial suspensions were vacated by an appeal panel created by the league's collective bargaining agreement. Goodell then reissued them with some modifications.
Vilma received full-season suspension, while Smith was docked four games. Hargrove initially received an eight-game suspension that was later trimmed to seven games, but for practical purposes, was reduced to two games because he was given credit for five games he missed as a free agent after being cut by Green Bay before the regular-season opener.
Fujita had his initial suspension reduced from three games to one, with the league saying that he failed in his duty as a defensive leader to discourage the bounty program run by former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams.
Goodell also suspended Williams indefinitely, while banning Saints head coach Sean Payton for a full season. Saints general manager Mickey Loomis was given an eight-game ban and Saints assistant head coach Joe Vitt served six games.
Tagliabue's ruling came after a new round of hearings that for the first time allowed Vilma's attorneys and the NFL Players Association, which represents the other three punished players, to cross examine key NFL witnesses in the probe.
Those witnesses included Williams and former Saints assistant Mike Cerullo, who was fired after the 2009 season and whose email to the league, accusing the Saints of being "a dirty organization," jump-started the probe.
Other witnesses included Vilma, Vitt, NFL investigators and former Minnesota head coach Brad Childress. Childress had told the NFL in 2010 that one of his players, Jimmy Kennedy, heard from Hargrove that there was a bounty on then-Vikings quarterback Brett Favre in the NFC title game.
Also for the first time, the NFL allowed players' attorneys to review all of the documents the NFL had collected, including some in which people stated that the players never did what they were accused of, the person who spoke with AP said.
The NFL tried late last week to settle the matter, but the players rejected the league's proposal. Although the NFL's offer would have reduced or eliminated some suspensions, players still would have been fined and forced to admit guilt, said the person who spoke to AP.
Hargrove's agent, Phil Williams, confirmed the settlement offer in an interview with CBS on Sunday, but did not go into detail. In a phone interview with the AP on Monday, the agent said Hargrove already "had been punished as bad as the NFL can possibly punish a player."
"Not only did he lose a year, but the NFL dragged his name through the mud and lied about him," he said.
Several teams inquired about Hargrove after Green Bay cut him, Phil Williams said, but they all expressed reservations about signing the veteran defensive lineman before the bounty matter had been resolved.
"I got calls from the beginning of the season until the middle of the season," the agent said, "and then they stopped."
Contributing: Associated Press