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Saints Bounty Thread - juraitwaluzka - 10-28-2012 02:33 AM
(10-28-2012 01:19 AM)pauliwood Wrote: oh, good, this is still going on.
Yeah, from what I've been hearing the saints apparently had a bounty program in place.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - AsylumGuido - 10-30-2012 12:41 PM
We had some interesting new news come out yesterday. I'll post a couple of different takes on it. First, PFT's story:
Latest Vilma brief attaches whistleblower email from Cerullo
Earlier today, I mentioned that the latest court filing from Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma in the bounty case contains no new facts or legal arguments.
Man, was I wrong.
Attached to the brief is the email sent by former Saints assistant coach Mike Cerullo that resurrected the NFL’s investigation. In a November 2, 2011 message to NFL spokesman Greg Aiello, Cerullo states as follows: “So I have info on Saints Joe Vitt Lying to your NFL Investigators on Bounties from 2010, along with proof!!! I was there, in the cover up meetings, with players and Joe, I love the NFL and want to work there again, but I am afraid if I tell thge [sic] truth I will never coach again in NFL, But I was fired for a situation that the Saints encourage. All I want is a Job back in the NFL as a QC Coach anywhere, so If talking to you jepodizes [sic] that I will have to get back to you, but The Saints are a Dirty Organization. Contact me.”
The message contains proof of Cerullo’s alleged bias against Vitt. As alleged by Vilma earlier in this process, Cerullo had vowed revenge against Vitt for firing Cerullo. Separately, Cerullo’s zeal to return to the NFL calls into question everything he says. Also, Cerullo’s reference to being fired “for a situation that the Saints encourage” requires that claim to be explored and compared to the stated and actual reasons for his termination, in order to properly evaluate Cerullo’s overall perspective and mindset.
The email is attached to a new declaration from Vilma’s lawyer, Peter Ginsberg, who explains that the email was produced by the NFL on October 23, 2012. Ginsberg contends that the NFL completely removed Aiello’s response.
The Cerullo email is marginally relevant to the effort to disqualify former Commissioner Paul Tagliabue as the bounty suspension hearing officer. But it will be extremely relevant to the overall appeal and litigation process, given that it makes a full cross examination of Cerullo even more critical to a fair disposition of the case.
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So this is the guy that the NFL is resting their case on? His email makes him sound like a moron. It also sounds to me like he is trying to bargain his way back into the league.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - AsylumGuido - 10-30-2012 12:50 PM
Here's is an ESPN story on the email from Cerullo. They also make some good points.
Report: Email added to brief
The latest legal brief filed by Jonathan Vilma to advocate the removal of Paul Tagliabue from the players' appeals hearing in the bounty investigation reportedly includes the original email from a former New Orleans Saints assistant that had helped relaunch the NFL's probe.
ProFootballTalk.com, which obtained a copy of the brief, reported that it attaches an email, dated Nov. 2, 2011, from former Saints assistant coach Mike Cerullo to NFL spokesman Greg Aiello regarding the team's alleged pay-for-pain program.
"So I have info on Saints Joe Vitt Lying to your NFL Investigators on Bounties from 2010, along with proof!!! I was there, in the cover up meetings, with players and Joe, I love the NFL and want to work there again, but I am afraid if I tell thge [sic] truth I will never coach again in NFL, But I was fired for a situation that the Saints encourage," the email reads, according to the website. "All I want is a Job back in the NFL as a QC Coach anywhere, so If talking to you jepodizes [sic] that I will have to get back to you, but The Saints are a Dirty Organization. Contact me."
The NFL handed the initial penalties to Saints coach Sean Payton, assistant head coach Vitt and general manager Mickey Loomis, as well as former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, on March 21. The original penalties instituted against Vilma and three other players were handed down May 2. They were overturned on appeal, then re-instituted Oct. 10 by commissioner Roger Goodell.
Peter Ginsberg, Vilma's attorney, reportedly says in a declaration that the NFL produced a copy of the email on Oct. 23, 2012, but that the league allegedly deleted Aiello's response to Cerullo.
Cerullo worked for the Saints from 2007 to 2009. The NFL in September commended Cerullo for coming forward to help its investigation, saying in a statement that the "information and detail he provided was credible and has since been confirmed in numerous respects both by other witnesses and by supporting documents."
Vilma had maintained earlier in the bounty appeals process that Cerullo had a vendetta against Vitt after Cerullo was fired following the 2009 season, allegedly for leaving the team on at least two occasions and then providing false excuses for the absences. The Saints linebacker alleged in a defamation lawsuit against Goodell that Cerullo vowed revenge against Vitt.
Tagliabue, the former NFL commissioner who was appointed by Goodell to preside over the latest hearings, was scheduled to hear the players' appeals Tuesday, but postponed them because of Hurricane Sandy, which hit the Northeast on Monday. The hearing was to have been held in Washington D.C.
Tagliabue has not set a new date for the hearing.
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In his email Cerullo lied about the reason for his being fired. He has a history of doing that. The other interesting point is the fact that the league deleted Greg Aiello's response. Why was that? The NFL has a history of destroying evidence used in their punishment ... anyone remember those Spygate tapes?
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - ATLBound - 10-30-2012 01:22 PM
Allegedly
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - AsylumGuido - 10-30-2012 01:55 PM
(10-30-2012 01:22 PM)ATLBound Wrote: Allegedly
Yes, allegedly, just like the Saints. Still, what is your take on the email? Two years after being fired and forcefully removed by police from the Saints headquarters, Cerullo suddenly volunteers handwritten proof that he somehow still possessed two years later. It was during his removal from the premises that he supposedly yelled at Vitt that he would get even with him for this (firing him). And, don't forget that Vilma's defamation suit claims that the documents Cerullo offered up were created well after the fact. In addition, he intimates that he will not present the information if it would get him in trouble and lets on he wants to get a job anywhere in the league. Sounds like he wanted to make a deal.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - RockHoward - 10-30-2012 01:59 PM
Wait. Vilma originally said Tagliabue was OK and now his lawyers are trying to get him recused? What a two-faced lying bastard. How can anyone trust anything that a saints player or coach or former coach says?
I agree that Cerullo is an unbelievable asshole but that is what it takes to get a job in the Saints coaching staff. I can't wait until Payton comes back and fires Vitt and all of the rest of those clowns and then the real dirt on the Saints organization will start oozing out like a bayou oil spill.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - mdrake34 - 10-30-2012 02:02 PM
So what was in Aiello's response?
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - Beef - 10-30-2012 02:03 PM
As usual you highlight the portions that you can spin and ignore things like this:
Quote:"information and detail he provided was credible and has since been confirmed in numerous respects both by other witnesses and by supporting documents."
Which of course goes right back to things like "cart-offs" and other evidence that doesn't even come from Cerullo.
Which of course also means that the NFL isn't "resting their case" on Cerullo alone. Yet you insist they are and that's just not true.
And I still find it hilarious that Williams and Cerullo never spoke to each other about the alleged Farve bounty, and that you contend it never existed, but oddly enough they some how came up with the exact same dollar amount of $10k.
I mean, what are the odds? Oh that's right, you think the NFL wrote Williams' and/or Cerullo's statements and they made up the $10k number and Williams and Cerullo just signed them. Because you know, they had to if they ever want back into football. So let's add extortion and bribery to the NFL's offenses I guess.
And forget the fact that you actually admitted a couple pages back that "cart-offs" meant a player was removed from the game for one or more plays. Which is a clear admission that there was a pay for injury program. Because we all know the ONLY reason to leave the field for anything (with regards to being hit) is because the player is hurt. I mean it's not remotely possible to spin that. They paid for hits that hurt other players, period. One play, two plays, the whole game, the rest of the season... it's all the same.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - ATLBound - 10-30-2012 02:05 PM
How could he make a deal with the NFL to be a QB coach? Wouldn't that be up to the coach who hires him? What does that have to do with the NFL offices?
Also looking at the other side of the spectrum. He knew he had info on Vitt and the Saints so he kept it saved somewhere. He knew that if he gave it up that his ability to get a job in the NFL was shot. So he tried to maybe get a job for 2 years and then when he didn't get a job. He decided to get his revenge on Vitt out of frustration.
The deal he was trying to make with the NFL was confidentiality. So that his name would be kept out and possibly still have the option of getting back in the NFL as a QB coach.
My story sounds no more far-fetched than your story and information that only dispute is who handled the money and what the definition of cart-offs mean.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - ATLBound - 10-30-2012 02:07 PM
But overall both my story and your story is just a made up story based on our biased idea of what went down.
One of us could be right or neither of us. I only give thos story because you're blindly speculating based on very miniscule facts. And the upsetting part is that you don't realize how biased you are and think that the way you see it is the only way it has to be.