NFL: Saints Bounty Thread - Printable Version
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RE: Saints Bounty Thread - JDaveG - 10-19-2012 01:57 PM
(10-19-2012 12:49 PM)AsylumGuido Wrote: But, there isn't even a regulation against pay for performance. Here is what the NFLPA says in filing this info with the Louisiana court:
The NFLPA is making the same error you are. Repeating it through a proxy doesn't advance the discussion.
No, there isn't a regulation but that's not the point. The point is in both cases, the authority to deal with it was delegated (in the instance of gun regulation in airports) or granted (in the case of the CBA) to a party outside the lawmaking authority. Since the CBA at issue in the Saints case is a completely different CBA than was involved in 1996, and in fact had been modified twice since the Packers issue arose, and since the commissioner has the authority under the current CBA to set standards for player safety and enforce them, you are arguing apples and oranges when you try to compare the Packers in 1996 to the Saints of late.
Now, that's all assuming you're only referring to the player discipline issue, which is all the Packers situation dealt with. If you're trying to say Goodell lacks the authority to suspend the coaches or punish the Saints, then you're just off your rocker. The New Orleans Saints are members of the National Football League, and the coaches are contracted employees of their respective affiliate. Not only that, but Payton's suspension and the $500K fine and the loss of the 2nd round draft pick were followed by this statement from the Saints:
"To our fans, the NFL and the rest of our league, we offer our sincere apology and take full responsibility for these serious violations . . . There is no place for bounties in our league and we reiterate our pledge that this will never happen again."
So if that's your claim, you'll have to explain why the Saints accepted those punishments and issued an apology for "bounties" when, after all, Goodell lacked any basis for suspending Payton or taking those actions against the Saints.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - Beef - 10-19-2012 02:37 PM
(10-19-2012 01:46 PM)AsylumGuido Wrote: There was no pay to injure/intent to injure as I have stated since day one. There was pay for performance which the league had previously okayed.
You're such a blind ass homer it's ridiculous.
I can flip everything you said there right back at you. There's been plenty of evidence that proves there was a pay for injury bounty program and you just refuse to accept it.
Vilma and anyone involved in this is angling for techinicalities at this point to try and skirt around their punishments. People of no interest to this entire situation who have been made privy to some of the evidence have admitted that it is concrete proof. Yet you and your ilk sit here and insist it's all based on lies from liars. Meanwhile, your "proof" of these "lies" is nothing close to actual proof. It's simply involved parties claiming the other guys are liars while they have motive to lie themselves.
Somebody is lieing. There's no question about that. But you nor I knows who it is and we may never know. You're accepting the word of anyone who helps your cause and you insist it's legit and proof. But it's not. And you're being an asshole for not accepting that it's not.
I on the other hand have no dog in this hunt. I simply do not believe that the right hand of the NFL owners would hand out punishment of such degree for complete bullshit made up lies and subject himself, the owners, and the league to such potential liability.
It's a game of legal bullshit at this point and the punished are searching for every technicallity they can find to grasp for a win so they can claim they're a victim of lies. It's costing a shit ton of money for the league and they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. If they continue, it's more expensive and a waste. If they give in, it saves money but opens the gates for the punished to spin it as if it means the league admits they were wrong. This is also exactly what you're doing. And this is another reason I can't fucking stand you. You're a spin mongering tool.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - ATLBound - 10-19-2012 02:58 PM
Damn well that "way out" lasted about 30 seconds. This thread will stay quiet for another few days until another article comes out with yet ANOTHER way the Saints will try to get out of this one.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - Dale4Saul2Red0 - 10-19-2012 03:01 PM
(10-19-2012 01:39 PM)Beef Wrote: Right, a whistleblower denying he blew the whistle. He has no motive to claim he's not a rat. Not.
Everyone knows snitches get stitches. If he really thought the NFL was lying he would have already filed a lawsuit against them.
Paul Tagliabue coming back to make a ruling on these appeals. Goodell is like I'm done with these clowns. I hope Paul lays the same hammer.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - papachaz - 10-19-2012 03:06 PM
word now is that Goodell has recused himself from the appeals on Tuesday, and has appointed former commish Tagilabue to handle them. Pay Y thinks this works in the players favor, though doesn't really do a good job of explaining why he thinks that. which of course is right on par with Pat Y......
so what's the consensus? it could be a way that Goodell takes the backdoor to get out of this. or it could be that he's hoping that if Tagliabue upholds the suspensions, he can go to court and say, see even the guy who was in charge when the GB thing was around realizes that it's a different time now and different rules apply
i'm just ready for this to be done, shouldn't this have blown over by now??
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - AsylumGuido - 10-19-2012 04:36 PM
(10-19-2012 01:56 PM)ATLBound Wrote: Calling all Ryan Braun and Roger Clemens stories. I think I can win because of a technicality. It doesn't make it less true. You've moved on from it didnt happen to a technicality.
Once again, the players were accused of taking part in a program which promoted intentional injury of opponents. Everyone involved has continued to deny that ever took place and there has been no credible proof that it ever happened.
Once this gets to court I expect Mike Cerullo to be proven a liar and a fraud just like was when he got fired by the Saints.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - AsylumGuido - 10-19-2012 04:43 PM
(10-19-2012 01:57 PM)JDaveG Wrote: The NFLPA is making the same error you are. Repeating it through a proxy doesn't advance the discussion.
The Saints coaches ever issued an apology for any bounties. Loomis and Payton apologized for allowing whatever happened happening under their watch. I'll guarantee you it was part of their punishment to submit some sort of apology.
The Saints organization could only go off what Goodell had told them.
That said, the NFLPA' lawyers must have felt there was some relevance since they formally submitted it to the court yesterday.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - AsylumGuido - 10-19-2012 04:49 PM
(10-19-2012 03:06 PM)papachaz Wrote: word now is that Goodell has recused himself from the appeals on Tuesday, and has appointed former commish Tagilabue to handle them. Pay Y thinks this works in the players favor, though doesn't really do a good job of explaining why he thinks that. which of course is right on par with Pat Y......
It won't blow over until Goodell gets what he deserves.
Tagliabue is a lawyer. He'll know how important it is to give the players access to the accuser. He knows that Judge Berrigan is sitting there watching this. And don't think that the statement by Kennedy outing Goodell for lying wasn't a factor. The timing is too good to be coincidental.
My take is that Goodell was told by ownership that he had carried this way too far and they wanted a fresh impartial take on the whole thing. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing gets overturned and the blame goes on Mike Cerullo and to a degree on Goodell for believing his whole story.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - AUTiger7222 - 10-19-2012 04:55 PM
(10-19-2012 04:43 PM)AsylumGuido Wrote: The Saints coaches ever issued an apology for any bounties. Loomis and Payton apologized for allowing whatever happened happening under their watch. I'll guarantee you it was part of their punishment to submit some sort of apology.
Gregg Williams admitted that there was a bounty program going on.
RE: Saints Bounty Thread - AsylumGuido - 10-19-2012 04:56 PM
(10-19-2012 02:37 PM)Beef Wrote: You're such a blind ass homer it's ridiculous.
And if the league was wrong? For the past seven months their so called evidence has continuously been disproved. Their original accusations have been altered numerous times and have most recently been reduced to acts that they themselves had previously condoned.
No, the players will not get off on a technicality. They will get off because they never intentionally targeted players for injury as originally accused. That is not spin mongering. What Goodell did was spin mongering to its greatest degree and only a tool would be so dense as to not be able to see that.