(05-03-2012 10:17 PM)JDaveG Wrote:  So wait -- this disreputable slimeball is not to be believed when he sends an e-mail that CLEARLY says he's in for $5000 on Rodgers, but he IS to be believed when he says "oh, it was a joke?"

Really, dude? You're just not living in reality. You refuse to believe what is right in front of all our faces.

And by the way, the reason this may be the "only" e-mail in 18,000 other e-mails or whatever is really simple. Even a crappy, slimeball dirty team like the Saints aren't typically stupid enough to put their wrongful acts IN WRITING. Too bad this guy did and Payton wasn't sharp enough to get rid of it.

And by "too bad," I mean "too bad for you."

(05-03-2012 10:25 PM)TeamPlayer1 Wrote:  Goodell has a signed statement from Hargrove concerning the bounty program plus Greg Williams statement saying there was a bounty program funded by some players.

Goodell only punished 2 current players and let the other players involved off the hook. If he punished all current defensive players who were there during GW's tenure maybe you would have a malice case.

Goodell said the the NFL has good lawyers, too! Geaux Goodell!

(05-03-2012 09:54 PM)AsylumGuido Wrote:  And Richard Smith would forgo his for the NFLPA?

Mary Jo can easily take her check from the NFL and make a statement that she felt the evidence was there. But, she is not a judge. She isn't even a prosecutor anymore. She is simply a lawyer that gets paid to do what she's wanted to do. She is no different than any other lawyer in the employ of the NFL, NFLPA, IBM, GM or any other major corporation. She is not an unbiased third party. She is an employee of the NFL. What do you expect her to say?

Yet, the NFLPA lawyers supposedly saw all the same evidence and claim there is nothing there.

No PROOF either way. No delusion. If you can't see that then you are the one suffering from an altered mind state.

(05-03-2012 10:31 PM)AsylumGuido Wrote:  Once again, how is this evidence that players willing contributed to and collect from an organized pay to injure system? You are a lawyer, right? You know as well as I do that it means absolutely nothing in its context.

(05-03-2012 06:22 PM)Radical Wrote:  Why do you continue to deny that Saints coaches, players, and other people inside and outside the organization put money up for injuries to other players?

Quote:And why should Payton try to get rid of it if he never read it? But, these emails from the server included deleted emails. I don't know about you, but if I get dozens of emails everyday and delete many without opening.

You don't appear to be very open to logic, right? As I mentioned earlier, many believe what they want to believe regardless of what lack of evidence exists.

You are basing your interpretation of the Saints as "crappy, slimeball dirty" on what fact? I have a feeling it is the fact that the Saints have owned your beloved team for many years and it pisses you off to such a degree that you choose to believe stories that hopefully you would never argue to defend in court expecting to win.

(05-03-2012 10:52 PM)ATLBound Wrote:  Are you serious? Richard Smith's only obligation is to the Players and nothing else. So you're telling me that it's more likely for Mary Jo White to lie than it is for Richard Smith? If YOU think that then the delusion has settled in and is like a disease that sits in your brain.

There is something called the evidence before the evidence. Where all this information out there whether it is proven or not leans toward the Saints being guilty including but not limited to the confirmation by the ring leader(s).

Where is Sean Payton's statement absolutely denying any form of this? Where is Gregg Williams? That is what we call sir evidence before the evidence. So we take this information and more I refuse to repeat and include it with evidence we have yet seen and wuite frankly we don't deserve to see and make a solid conclusion. It does take intelligence in prder to come up woth a proper conclusion.

So with pre-evidence already shown we have two sides...NFLPA (Richard Smith) says not enough...NFL (Mary Jo White) says enough and I dont know the resume of Richard Smith but I'm pretty confident a former prosecutor is a great resume. But with this info coming in you decide to believe the side that ironically benefits your team. Good luck fella if you think the NFL is coming down on this one.

Even the folks in the media who are actually defending the suspensions aren't defending the idea of this whole thing is being a farce. The benefits of the NFL making this all up and gettinf away with do not by any means outweigh the extrenely negative impact of this "farce" being found out.

Your team and every Saints fan should look in the mirror

Oh and btw so you will believe my response I made sure to spell the coach and former coaches name properly.

(05-03-2012 10:51 PM)AsylumGuido Wrote:  Hargrove is the only person that supposedly referenced something along these lines in a declaration. Where is that declaration? And could he have a reason to lie? Well, after he helped lead the Saints to the Super Bowl they cut him loose and essentially told him not to let the door hit him in the ass. He was not on the team after the 2009 season.

Greg Williams never said there was any player funding in a bounty program. That is bullcrap. He has issued two public statements. They are as follows:

March 2, 2012

“I want to express my sincere regret and apology to the NFL, Mr. Benson, and the New Orleans Saints fans for my participation in the ‘pay for performance’ program while I was with the Saints. It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it. Instead of getting caught up in it, I should have stopped it. I take full responsibility for my role. I am truly sorry. I have learned a hard lesson and I guarantee that I will never participate in or allow this kind of activity to happen again.”

On March 21, 2012 he added:

"I'd like to again apologize wholeheartedly to the NFL, Coach Fisher, the entire Rams organization and all football fans for my actions. Furthermore, I apologize to the players of the NFL for my involvement as it is not a true reflection of my values as a father or coach, nor is it reflective of the great respect I have for this game and its core principle of sportsmanship. I accept full responsibility for my actions. I highly value the 23 years that I've spent in the NFL. I will continue to cooperate fully with the league and its investigation and I will focus my energies on serving as an advocate for both player safety and sportsmanship. I will do everything possible to re-earn the respect of my colleagues, the NFL and its players in hopes of returning to coaching in the future."

Where in either of these statements did he state players took part in a pay to injure program? Well? Still waiting.

(05-03-2012 10:59 PM)JDaveG Wrote:  You didn't limit your commentary in this thread to the players. In fact, the specific issue being addressed in the line of discussion for the comment I posted dealt with "coaches, players, and other people inside and outside the organization."




Yes, I'm the one who isn't open to logic. Your story about how the slimeball that can't be trusted should be completely believed only when he says he was "joking," but not at all when he put in writing that he put money on Rodgers, is much more logical. As is Sean Payton's claim that he never, ever read the e-mail, but it probably referred to a bounty. Right. That makes a ton of sense.

You're a buffoon. And you're projecting, because you're the one ignoring evidence.

As for the Saints "owning" the Falcons for many years, we'll see how that works out for you. If you think I form opinions on right and wrong based on a damn game, you are sadly mistaken.

(05-03-2012 11:01 PM)ATLBound Wrote:  So EVERYBODY is lieing except for the Saints players? Now Hargrove has a reason to lie as well? How is it that EVERYBODY has a reason to lie except those in trouble currently?

Do you hear yourself?

Secondly can Gregg Williams go out on the field and carry out this bounty? I don't think I have ever seen Gregg Williams out there...how about you?

So hmm...if Gregg confirmed it but never mentioned any players, then why was he punished for something?

Remember...if I say that I robbed a bank, but I never did then it doesn't count right?

(05-03-2012 11:19 PM)AsylumGuido Wrote:  No, I said that Ornstein, a convicted felon, cannot be believed at all. He was serving an eight month term in a federal prison when he sent the email. You didn't realize that, huh? How did he get the cash to Williams? Kind of fishy, huh? Did he wire the money? There would have to have been some hard fast record other than the email, right? Where is it? He supposedly also sent a second email from prison pledging $5000 on Cam Newton. Well, where is the money trail on this one? You would think there would be a trail if money was ever laid, right? It wasn't like he was able to walk in and hand over cash.

I am not ignoring evidence. I have yet to see any that is believable or in any way conclusive.