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+--- Thread: NFL: Vilma Suspended 1 year (/Thread-NFL-Vilma-Suspended-1-year)
RE: Vilma Suspended 1 year - AsylumGuido - 05-05-2012 07:01 PM
(05-05-2012 05:18 PM)ATLBound Wrote: You sir have a lot of faith in homosapiens
Yes I do. Think about it. How different are the players on the Saints roster than any other roster in the league. You have to believe that either all of them would have went into something like that totally or that none of them would. I tend heavily toward none of them.
Corporate America continues to surprise me with what they attempt to do. The NFL IS corporate America. Why would we hold them to a higher standard? Running a team and a select few players through the ringer on trumped up charges would be nothing as is compared to what goes on all the time.
Step back for a minute or two from your hatred of the Saints and absorb the possibilities. Your own player Curtis Lofton has said that his new teammates are good people.
I am sorry, but as conservative as I am, I believe people deserve a chance to prove themselves and not to be judged in a vacuum.
RE: Vilma Suspended 1 year - ATLBound - 05-05-2012 07:25 PM
(05-05-2012 07:01 PM)AsylumGuido Wrote: Yes I do. Think about it. How different are the players on the Saints roster than any other roster in the league. You have to believe that either all of them would have went into something like that totally or that none of them would. I tend heavily toward none of them.
Corporate America continues to surprise me with what they attempt to do. The NFL IS corporate America. Why would we hold them to a higher standard? Running a team and a select few players through the ringer on trumped up charges would be nothing as is compared to what goes on all the time.
Step back for a minute or two from your hatred of the Saints and absorb the possibilities. Your own player Curtis Lofton has said that his new teammates are good people.
I am sorry, but as conservative as I am, I believe people deserve a chance to prove themselves and not to be judged in a vacuum.
I already said earlier my stance has nothing to do with the Saints. If you asked me does it make it sweeter, then I would answer YES emphatically.
But don't be an absolutist. Its not if all or none did it. I have absolutely no problem with agreeing that some of did it and some shunned it.
I have no doubt some players said "Absolutely not"
I have no doubt some players thought about it and then said "No"
I have no doubt that some players thought about it and said "Let's do it"
I have no doubt that some players were estatic about it.
Understand everybody has totally different personalities, lives, situations they have experienced, and upbringing. Not everybody is the same. There are followers and thre are leaders. So when you say all or none its not that black and white. Understand 22-28 players does not make up the whole roster. Everybody in here knows this.
So when you look at the Albert Haynesworth's of the league who would step on a player's head with cletes on for no extra money, then I would not be so confident in others doing it for money. Once again I'm not saying everybody is like but there are some.
RE: Vilma Suspended 1 year - swanlee - 05-05-2012 08:04 PM
(05-05-2012 12:25 PM)phocis850 Wrote: Guido isn't going to be banned. Sadly, he's more civil than many fellow Falcons fans.
Should I go ahead and un-ban Swift and the gang? LOL.
No, you do that and I'm gone,this is the only refuge from there trolling crap.
RE: Vilma Suspended 1 year - TeamPlayer1 - 05-05-2012 08:52 PM
(05-05-2012 12:25 PM)phocis850 Wrote: Guido isn't going to be banned. Sadly, he's more civil than many fellow Falcons fans.
Should I go ahead and un-ban Swift and the gang? LOL.
Absolutely Guido should not be banned even though I am not fond of another team's fans salsa dancing across a Falcons board.
I respect Guido's right to defend my most hated team and it's obnoxious fans and will continue to grit my teeth when I read his post.
Why do I read his posts? This a FALCONS board!
RE: Vilma Suspended 1 year - AsylumGuido - 05-06-2012 11:00 AM
(05-05-2012 07:25 PM)ATLBound Wrote: I already said earlier my stance has nothing to do with the Saints. If you asked me does it make it sweeter, then I would answer YES emphatically.
But don't be an absolutist. Its not if all or none did it. I have absolutely no problem with agreeing that some of did it and some shunned it.
I have no doubt some players said "Absolutely not"
I have no doubt some players thought about it and then said "No"
I have no doubt that some players thought about it and said "Let's do it"
I have no doubt that some players were estatic about it.
Understand everybody has totally different personalities, lives, situations they have experienced, and upbringing. Not everybody is the same. There are followers and thre are leaders. So when you say all or none its not that black and white. Understand 22-28 players does not make up the whole roster. Everybody in here knows this.
So when you look at the Albert Haynesworth's of the league who would step on a player's head with cletes on for no extra money, then I would not be so confident in others doing it for money. Once again I'm not saying everybody is like but there are some.
That's where we differ. I can't believe a single one would have said let's do it and until someone shows me actual proof I will continue to believe in them.
On that note, here is an excellent story by a third party reporter who has in the past couple of months praised Goodell on his suspensions of Williams and the others. But, he is beginning to have a different feeling about the players. Please read it.
NFL needs to publicly release evidence of players' bounty involvement if it exists
This article echoes many of my arguments and is becoming a growing sentiment.
RE: Vilma Suspended 1 year - AsylumGuido - 05-06-2012 11:02 AM
This passage somehow doesn't surprise me ...
"I've also had conversations with several knowledgeable sources who question the way the league conducted its investigation, including one person interviewed by an NFL security official before the league released its report. I've heard stories of disingenuous promises and of investigators who actively sought only information that they deemed incriminating while ignoring any evidence to the contrary."
RE: Vilma Suspended 1 year - Beef - 05-06-2012 11:15 AM
(05-06-2012 11:00 AM)AsylumGuido Wrote: I can't believe a single one would have said let's do it and until someone shows me actual proof I will continue to believe in them.
Only a complete fucking retard would think like this.
RE: Vilma Suspended 1 year - TeamPlayer1 - 05-06-2012 11:29 AM
An interesting article by a reporter with The Times-Picayune showing why the NFLPA will lose.
Players Association comes in late, short vs. Commissioner Roger Goodell in defense of players
05/05/12 5:14AM
Subscribe to PostFlag Post
John DeShazier, The Times-Picayune
There was little doubt that Jonathan Vilma, Will Smith, Anthony Hargrove and Scott Fujita were going to appeal their NFL suspensions.
Michael DeMocker / The Times-PicayuneSaints defensive end Will Smith, right, has been suspended by the NFL for the first four games of the 2012 season due to his involvement in the bounty scandal, but along with teammate Jonathan Vilma, is appealing through the NFLPA.
The union that represents them essentially had a duty to membership to push the quartet to appeal their punishments for their roles in the Saints' bounty program, if for no other reason than to show that the almost all-encompassing powers of NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell wouldn't go unchallenged.
But it would've been a heck of a lot better if the union had shown this kind of courage BEFORE it entered into its new collective bargaining agreement with the owners last summer.
It would've been wonderful if the NFL Players Association more effectively had sought to derail Goodell's one-man judicial system train when the perfect opportunity to do so presented itself at the bargaining table, rather than now, when it appears they're scrambling to sidestep the very agreement into which they entered.
But when the appeals falter, as they are forecast to do -- and Vilma (the 2012 season), Hargrove (eight games), Smith (four games) and Fujita (three games) are left to serve their sentences -- let us hope union leaders and membership spend some time finding a better way to try to reinvent the CBA than this one.
Again, that's not to say the NFLPA shouldn't vigorously defend Vilma, Smith, Hargrove and Fujita (though, hopefully, it'll explain that defense to its members who have been identified as targets of the bounty system). It almost has to defend them.
Union leadership would be reevaluated -- and probably run off -- if it didn't cry foul over any suspension, especially ones as severe as these.
But the twin arguments that, one, Goodell was prohibited from punishing players for sketchy conduct before the current CBA going into effect last Aug. 4 because they were absolved from detrimental conduct before that and, two, that the offending actions were "on the playing field" and subject to the authority of hearing officers, rather than "off the field" and under the jurisdiction of Goodell, don't sound like a winning formula.
First, they might want to note that last season, Cincinnati Bengals running back Cedric Benson was among eight players the union turned over to Goodell to be suspended for off-field transgressions that happened during the lockout.
Benson was suspended for a game without pay and docked another game check even though his transgression occurred before the CBA was signed, while he was a free agent. The union negotiated a deal in which he was one of eight players who could be disciplined, while 25 players were not.
Yes, Benson was considered a repeat offender, and his suspension was reduced from three games to one (a penalty reduction might be the end game for the Vilma group, too).
But the end result was that he and others were punished for transgressions that occurred before Aug. 4, and Benson wasn't even under contract.
Those eight were handed over even though they were locked out when they soiled the NFL shield. If I'm a member of Vilma's group, it wouldn't comfort me that Benson's group was guilty of conduct detrimental and causing an image hit to the league.Second, Saints assistant head coach Joe Vitt, who will serve a six-game suspension for his role in the bounty program, called the cause of his punishment the "spoken word" rather than the "clenched fist." That points to a belief that if he was guilty of anything, it wasn't for something that happened on the field.
Saints players, likewise, have insisted that no malicious intent was carried onto the field. No opponent purposefully was targeted to be injured for pay via a bounty program, they have said, in bold print and with exclamation points.
Yet, in the appeal -- and in an effort to get the matter out of the hands of Goodell -- the union seems to be making an affirmative case for the clenched fist rather than the spoken word.
It wants the bounty system to be considered an on-field act, and under the jurisdiction of hearing officers Ted Cottrell and Art Shell, rather than an off-field act that solely can be judged by the commissioner -- even while players insist nothing happened on the field.
The "it didn't happen but if it did it was on the field" defense isn't all that persuasive.
It sounds like what it is, a desperate attempt to prevent Goodell from imposing his will on this situation.
Too bad the NFLPA didn't want that desperately enough to do something about it last summer when it could have.
When the opportunity presented itself to negotiate and ensure that Goodell solely couldn't serve as judge and jury on any issue, the union backed down. Now, it wants to try to step up.
Now, it's a little too late.
•••••••
Vilma Suspended 1 year - juraitwaluzka - 05-06-2012 11:52 AM
(05-06-2012 11:15 AM)Beef Wrote: Only a complete fucking retard would think like this.
It's the same thought process of the Vick guys who still insist Vick didn't do anything, the only proof was his confession which of course was coerced by whitey.
And in a thread I read through recently on AFMB Mr. Right was singing basically the same tune as we've been seeing over here.
So, yeah retard sounds about right.
RE: Vilma Suspended 1 year - AsylumGuido - 05-06-2012 12:03 PM
(05-06-2012 11:15 AM)Beef Wrote: Only a complete fucking retard would think like this.
Sorry I can't think down to you level.
