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MOVING ON - THE NEW ATLANTA FALCONS DEFENSE - FullMetalFalcon23 - 03-27-2012 01:01 PM
LOFTON is gone, we can flog it to death but he won't be we doning red black and white again.
I was thinking about this New defense we will see and the different things that we may look to do, one thing I came up with, I recall seeing that our Nickle sets were often going to be 3 linebacker sets. (Could have been rumour or it could be based in fact) BUT with the idea being that we would include 3-4 Principles but not be a solely 3-4 team I think this would be quite interesting.The reason being that to achieve this a DT would have to come out. Now I'm drawing dots together and perhaps clutching at straws, but I figure we have had a tense few weeks around here. Something a bot different and more fun is needed. As I said, to run a 3-3 we would in nickle situations we would be taking a DT out to add the DB in. With the obvious problems we have had with pass rush this seems like a bad idea, however there is one player on our defense who i'm writing this with in mind, who has the ability to both cover and rush the passer quite proficiently and it seems as though he hasn't been able to do this as much in recent seasons, Stephen Nicholas.
Nicholas is one of our fastest linebackers and whilst speed is not everything, especially with his tall but light frame, in college he was quite a successful rusher, totaling 20 sacks in his career. In 2009 he had 84 tackles and 3 sacks. This is a guy who can get to the passer.
We want to bring the heat on critical downs but we want to be tight in coverage. It appears that we have 2 book end Linebackers who can both get to the QB. Now I'm not suggesting that you send both, but there is a situation for us where we should be able to send either Spoon or Nich along with the down rushers. Mike Smith was talking about Peters' versatility across the line, I could see him being our Pseudo penetrating NT with our Ray edwards and Kroy and Abe DE rush combinations. But having a middle linebacker you are comfortable to drop into coverage with one of the outside guys whilst bringing a rusher seems like a great tool to me.
Now knowing that Nolan likes to blitz from multiple spots there could be players from the secondary getting involved depending on the coverage. To me this is where the basis for a less predictable pass defense will hopefully come from. This won't be the only way or the only formation but perhaps it is something we will see.
Post here your idea and things you would like to see our defense doing schematically or not see them do this season. Who do you think has an opportunity to develop as Nolan's Lynchpin pass rusher as quite often someone on his defense tends to become.
RE: MOVING ON - THE NEW ATLANTA FALCONS DEFENSE - RFlagg - 03-27-2012 01:13 PM
The way I picture it, when we're in a 4-3 package, expect to see:
RDE - Abe/Sidburry
DT - Babs/Jerry
DT - Peters/Jerry
LDE - Edwards/Biermann
SLB - Spoon
MLB - Dent/Tatupu
WLB - Nicolas
RCB - Robinson
FS - Moore
SS - DeCoud
LCB - Grimes
When we switch to a 3-4 look, I'd think we'd line up like this.
RDE - Abe
NT - Peters/Jerry
LDE - Babs
ROLB - Spoon
RILB - Dent/Tatupu
LILB - Nicolas
LOLB - Edwards/Biermann
RCB - Robinson
FS - Moore
SS - DeCoud
LCB - Grimes
However, Nickel would be interesting, as I think it would be this.
RDE - Abe/Sidburry
DT - Babs/Jerry
DT - Peters/Jerry
LDE - Edwards/Biermann
RILB - Spoon
LILB - Nicolas
RCB - Robinson
FS - Moore
SS - DeCoud
NB - Franks/Owens
LCB - Grimes
That's just how I see things playing out.
RE: MOVING ON - THE NEW ATLANTA FALCONS DEFENSE - FullMetalFalcon23 - 03-27-2012 01:56 PM
(03-27-2012 01:13 PM)RFlagg Wrote: The way I picture it, when we're in a 4-3 package, expect to see:
RDE - Abe/Sidburry
DT - Babs/Jerry
DT - Peters/Jerry
LDE - Edwards/Biermann
SLB - Spoon
MLB - Dent/Tatupu
WLB - Nicolas
RCB - Robinson
FS - Moore
SS - DeCoud
LCB - Grimes
When we switch to a 3-4 look, I'd think we'd line up like this.
RDE - Abe
NT - Peters/Jerry
LDE - Babs
ROLB - Spoon
RILB - Dent/Tatupu
LILB - Nicolas
LOLB - Edwards/Biermann
RCB - Robinson
FS - Moore
SS - DeCoud
LCB - Grimes
However, Nickel would be interesting, as I think it would be this.
RDE - Abe/Sidburry
DT - Babs/Jerry
DT - Peters/Jerry
LDE - Edwards/Biermann
RILB - Spoon
LILB - Nicolas
RCB - Robinson
FS - Moore
SS - DeCoud
NB - Franks/Owens
LCB - Grimes
That's just how I see things playing out.
I do think a nickel package like that one is possible to. I think in an intermediate distance and down situation like 3 and 5 or even 3rd and 7 against teams who have the ability to run in those situations or use screens in such a situation such a formation could put teams off the run or screen game as they have to size up the 4 down defenders and the 2 linebackers who could equally cover pass or run. On the other hand it still keeps us in a position to rush the passer with 4 and still have 7 men in coverage. Between the line schemes and what I hope would be new standards in coaching and aggression being passed down. A defense could be in a strong position using this formation.
So you've talked about personnel here but now tell me what you'd like to see happening schematically and tactic wise in some of these formations. In your nickel formation, I'd like to see blitz a blitz from the Tight Ends with William Moore in man coverage with the end but taking a robberbacks alignment at around 5 to 7 yards off the LOS. This is one of those situations where many believe Moore can excel by using his ball hawking nature. In my mind this can spring pressure on the QB force either the back or TE to stay home or stop aspects of the offensive play from running on schedule. On the back end, I'll admit I have little if anything to offer as my speciality was DL and LBs.
RE: MOVING ON - THE NEW ATLANTA FALCONS DEFENSE - Radical - 03-27-2012 06:37 PM
(03-27-2012 01:13 PM)RFlagg Wrote: When we switch to a 3-4 look, I'd think we'd line up like this.
RDE - Abe
NT - Peters/Jerry
LDE - Babs
ROLB - Spoon
RILB - Dent/Tatupu
LILB - Nicholas
LOLB - Edwards/Biermann
I don't think you'll see Abe in as a DE in a 3-4 set, nor do I think we'll see Edwards standing up very much. I think our 3-4 set isn't going to be a classic look with a 0 technique or any of that business. I think you'll see more of a hybrid look with Abe standing up sometimes, but mostly rushing the passer, much like the Ravens do with Suggs.
Spoon can go pretty much anywhere, but he's probably going to stick more of a 4-3 OLB role and may be called to rush the passer from the OLB position. The guy is athletic enough that you can do all sorts of things with him(stunts, blitz across formations, etc.). Nicholas is more of a 3-4 OLB type, along with Spinbury and Biermann. Dent and Tatupu are going to be the ones heading up our ILB positions more often than not, and I expect to see an increased role by some of our back-ups.
I think we're going to see a lot of looks in our 3-4 and Nickel sets that are just going to have people going, "WTF is that look/formation." Nolan is a variety defense type guy. He's going to identify what all we have, and build very specific formations and plays that will capitalize on what we have. One thing that will carry over though is our use of the 3-3-5, and the zone blitz, specifically the fire zone plays.
RE: MOVING ON - THE NEW ATLANTA FALCONS DEFENSE - Beef - 03-27-2012 08:07 PM
Yeah the ONLY guys who play DE in the 4-3 for us that I can picture standing up are Biermann and Sidbury, but even then I doubt that will happen.
You have to keep run stoppers on the front 3 in a 3-4, don't forget. Peters is our biggest DT, then Walker, then Babs. Jerry isn't even 300 lbs and he's probably our fastest DT. I picture Peters at NT over the center, with Babs and Jerry in or just outside the B-gap over the tackles and then Dent and Tatupu coving the guard holes. Then Spoon and Nicholas on the outside with alternating who steps up to the line.
Abe and Edwards are pure 3-point hand in the dirt tall 265+ lb DE's. They are the furthest thing from 3-4 OLB's you can get. And Biermann and Sidbury are virtually the same things. They're way too big to be playing that deep and standing upright. Nicholas, Adkins, & James are all 235 lbs or less and have the speed to cover or rush from the standup position and a couple yards off the line. Spoon is a freak of nature with regards to speed at 245 lbs, so him staying outside is a given.
I really think Nicholas is going to be the guy that surprises us with a bunch of sacks this year from Nolan's hybrid look. And Jerry playing over a tackle is also intrigueing as hell to me. It might be just what he needs. Peters needs to hopefully come into camp 15 pounds heavier, around 320. I wouldn't mind seeing Vance Walker beef up to 320+ as well.
In a nutshell, I don't really see ANY of our DE's on the field if we're in Nolan's hybrid 3-4 set. Maybe Biermann if any of them at all because he's clearly our fastest DE by a huge margin, but that's it.
RE: MOVING ON - THE NEW ATLANTA FALCONS DEFENSE - Radical - 03-27-2012 08:27 PM
Meh, Abe has experience as a 3-4 OLB and we've dropped him into coverage more than some teams send their 3-4 OLBs into coverage. How do you figure we won't be seeing Bierman and Sidbury not standing him though?
RE: MOVING ON - THE NEW ATLANTA FALCONS DEFENSE - Beef - 03-27-2012 08:44 PM
Because Nick and Spoon are so much faster. And with an undersized NT we can't put DEs on the DL covering 2 gaps. Our DTs will do that. And we're not moving Nick inside when we have Dent and Tatupu and then replacing Spoon or Nick with slower Biermann or Sidbury.
Our OLBs will play OLB, our ILBs will play ILB, and our DTs will play DT. It's really quite simple. There's no place for 265 lb 4-3 DEs in a 3-4 set. They'd be playing out of position more than anyone else.
When Abe played a 3-4, he was lighter and faster. We all cringed every time he dropped into coverage and shouted "WTF BVG!". That one interception he got was a fluke and a gift dropped in his chest. He shouldn't be in that spot and everyone should know that. He's a 4-3 hand in the dirt edge rusher, period. (although he is an excellent run stopper on the end too). And Biermann and Sid are not really different. Same for Matthews even. They're all too big and slow for that position and we have guys who are supposed to play there because that's their position.
RE: MOVING ON - THE NEW ATLANTA FALCONS DEFENSE - pauliwood - 03-28-2012 02:53 PM
(03-27-2012 01:01 PM)FullMetalFalcon23 Wrote: LOFTON is gone, we can flog it to death but he won't be we doning red black and white again.
There is no guarantee that Loftin wont play for Arizona.
I think we might see a player like Boykin or Samuel added to compete, once again for the Nickle.
I will be extremely excited about seeing how Dent/Tatupu develop and co-exist. Both have unanswered questions, Tatupu is a Pro bowler who just sat out a season, and Dent is a player drafted for his special teams ability, who wasn't even the best LB on his college team at UGA. Things could go either way with both of these players. We know by Nolan's attitude toward Loftin that he did not factor into the new plans, either this means he is comfortable with the two previously disused players, or we have a real target on a guy that so far no one in the media has got the scoop on yet.
RE: MOVING ON - THE NEW ATLANTA FALCONS DEFENSE - Beef - 03-28-2012 03:01 PM
OL, TE, and CB are our priorities, but ILB isn't far behind CB I think. Neither is safety and of course DE. Although I think DE is at a let's see what Sidbury and Matthews give us this year stage.
RE: MOVING ON - THE NEW ATLANTA FALCONS DEFENSE - Jesus - 03-28-2012 04:53 PM
I remember Biermann moving inside a few times last year at DT. He is pretty versatile I just hope he hasn't peaked and can turn a corner this year at last.