NFL: Not to just beat a dead horse... - Printable Version
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Not to just beat a dead horse... - Jesus - 03-23-2012 10:08 PM
But there really isn't much else to talk about.
Here is a blog by TMQ on the Saints scandal from 3/6/12
here are some interesting tidbits:
Quote:• Michael Vick went to prison for nearly two years for harming dogs, which he should not have done. Williams offered players money to harm people. And there was no misunderstanding: Williams told the league Friday, "We knew we were wrong while we were doing it.'' The situations are not directly analogous. But if prison was the fair punishment for causing harm to animals, the punishment Williams faces must be severe.
RE: Not to just beat a dead horse... - Radical - 03-23-2012 10:15 PM
One thing to note is that Vick KILLED dogs, not just hurt them.
RE: Not to just beat a dead horse... - AsylumGuido - 03-23-2012 10:28 PM
Or more precisely, tortured them by forcing them to fight to the death, if lucky. If not, they were killed in horrific ways. But, that has nothing to do with football.
You can watch any game played in the NFL since film was invented and you will see exactly the same plays you are pointing out in your exercise. Go back over the Falcons' tapes play by play and I will guarantee you will see the same type of hits made by your players. The same hits that you thought were so awesome at the time.
RE: Not to just beat a dead horse... - illmusic - 03-24-2012 01:23 AM
(03-23-2012 10:28 PM)AsylumGuido Wrote: Or more precisely, tortured them by forcing them to fight to the death, if lucky. If not, they were killed in horrific ways. But, that has nothing to do with football.
exactly, everybody was ranting and raving about meiers block on special teams and appalled when the league fined him....youre kidding yourselves if he didn't have the intention of hurting the player he threw his body into. The only fuck up the saints did, in my eyes, is pay for cart offs and let the shit leak out.
RE: Not to just beat a dead horse... - FullMetalFalcon23 - 03-24-2012 04:38 AM
(03-24-2012 01:23 AM)illmusic Wrote: exactly, everybody was ranting and raving about meiers block on special teams and appalled when the league fined him....youre kidding yourselves if he didn't have the intention of hurting the player he threw his body into. The only fuck up the saints did, in my eyes, is pay for cart offs and let the shit leak out.
Are you serious about meier's hit? That was as legit a blow up as you can get. He made that hit within the rules of the game and it was whilst the play was still active. If the guy had made the tackle people wouldn't say a thing other than the return team should have blocked him. Kerry rounded out and made sure he got on the right side of the player to land a heavy and yes very violent block on a player. But we go back through NFL return videos you'll see that block with different players time and time again without it being flagged.
I'm not afraid to cast criticism on our players at all. But in this particular instances whilst it doesn't really matter anymore. I'd gladly go out on a limb to say he didn't deserve a fine for that. It was pure hustle and football in that moment. It's very unfortunate that the snapper broke what I think was his coccyx but I think if he hadn't suffered an injury there would be no fine.
RE: Not to just beat a dead horse... - ATLBound - 03-24-2012 12:18 PM
Sigh...its a shame that we have to keep saying the same thing over and over. It's not really about the hits. It's been well documented that the Saints weren't even penalized much during this 3 year span.
The BIG issue with what's going on is paying players to hurt people. Yes, i agree that you may have some players who already have the intention of hurting people, but with a bounty you are physically and mentally condoning and rewarding a NEGATIVE action of hurting someone.
I understand it's a physical sport and every team does it blah blah blah. If someone gets hurt in the field of play then so be it...the nature of the sport.
BUT if said player is hurt or carted off the field no matter how severe, whether its a small ankle injury or an IR injury then the player who caused it gets $5000 for it then that is a problem.
Understand the Saints didn't get punished for vicious hits...they got punished for having a system that pays for performance and injuries on the field and then covering it up.
Can we please stop talking about vicious hits and comparing them to other teams vicious hits? That's not what it was about.
One article said it best...this is not an exact quote, but basically he said the result of the bounty should not dictate how much the Saints get penalized.
RE: Not to just beat a dead horse... - takeitdown - 03-24-2012 05:36 PM
Attempted murder is a pretty big offense despite negative outcome.
Intent is pretty much everything. There was bad intent all around here.
RE: Not to just beat a dead horse... - Templar - 03-24-2012 06:53 PM
I still keep wondering if we're going to see actual litigation from this.
There is legal precedence that a pro football player accepts a certain risk factor by playing the game, just as each of us accepts a certain amount of risk each time we get on a plane or drive a car.
However, it is verified that these players, coaches and outside contributors were putting up money to pay for the intentional injury of another player. Thereby, the acceptance of risk no longer applies.
For example, if I put up an offer of $10,000 for someone if they injured Guido in a car accident, that overrides the acceptance of risk. On top of that, such an offer made public would likely bring litigation and perhaps criminal charges against me.
Vilma put up $10,000 on knocking Favre out of the game, and he received several violent and questionable hits during that game. If Favre were a vindictive man, he could probably bring charges against Vilma, Williams and anyone else who contributed to that pot, and against any aint player who hit him in even a questionable manner during that game. Warner could do the same, and perhaps even sue for massive damages as he received a concussion during that game.
Again, this argument of "everyone does it" and so on doesn't really fly. Hermann Goring tried that defense once and you know how that turned out. Payton and Williams both said that they knew it was wrong and they didn't stop it. There you go. They knowingly committed the crimes and fucked the aint nation in the process.
Personally, I find the aint nation getting fucked hilarious and hope that it never stops. I find it hilarious that the fans are getting behind these guys who knowingly fucked them. I can't wait to hear all the excuses and crying and moaning once the player suspensions come down. I'll laugh my ass off if I get to see Vilma behind bars.
Of course, it's also going to be beautiful to see the depleted aint defense get 40,50 and even 60 points put up on them week in and week out.
RE: Not to just beat a dead horse... - AsylumGuido - 03-24-2012 07:13 PM
(03-24-2012 06:53 PM)Templar Wrote: I still keep wondering if we're going to see actual litigation from this.
First of all, it would be impossible to show intent to injure.
Second, hell yes I'm 100% behind my team. Why would whatever happened make me not want them to win?
Oh, and even if Payton did know it was going on, he most certainly has not admitted it. He has apologized for it happening under his watch and takes full responsibility. But, if you check back to every statement from both Loomis and Payton, neither has said that they "knew it was going on". Gregg Williams is the only one who has admitted to being knowledgeable of the fact a player could be rewarded for knocking players out of games.
RE: Not to just beat a dead horse... - AsylumGuido - 03-24-2012 07:15 PM
Oh, and I expect the defense to be improved over last year's version, even with any suspensions that may occur.