Falcons: My Thinking On The New OC - Printable Version
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My Thinking On The New OC - Knight of God - 01-17-2012 02:58 AM
So, I hated the pick out of the gate. Lowest in the NFL, Jaguars which I am tired of, and lastly I can't stand the Bubble Screen even on the Pop Warner level.
Then, I started looking at some of the things he wanted to bring to Atlanta. The screen, not just the bubble and a few other wrinkles and I said...wait a dang on minute. That's exactly what I asked for!
Let's look at a few things based on skill position.
QB - Koetter believes that the QB runs the offense, not the OC. You can't run a successful offense without communication at all. Koetter also has a similar belief as Billick (reason I wanted Billick to begin with) and that is knowing and understanding defense on a vast level. He expects QB's to know as much about defense as a MLB or FS. He also has NEVER had a QB with as much work ethic, determination, and smarts as Ryan.
One thing though, you don't have to have a laser for an arm to run a Koetter offense. Its as simple as checking your hot reads...YES I said HOT READS. You have two of them as well as a mobile check down. The problem has been shotty OL's and receivers and QB's not being very smart, and this year a rookie QB who was not as good as the hype. Although it has been no fault of Koetter or the FO that there wasn't much to work with as far as QB or WR's, he made the best of what he had in the TE and RB department.
RB - Koetter believes in the power run game and throwing wrinkles into it a lot. He likes power runners, speed backs, and utility guys. He tried as much as he could to use more than MJD, but he had no one else as the brass has been more involved on drafting busts in the form of linemen and most recently a QB. I found that he has in fact tried to get power backs more involved. Montell Owens was all he had in that way and Deji Karim (a 4.4 running back at 5'9" 200lbs was a back up speedster). All he had was MJD...again.
Its a knee jerk reaction to say that Turner will be gone, he's had his run...etc. Maybe, but Rodgers will be solid in many uses and we will see big plays from him, but don't discount what Turner could be in this spread. Guys like Turner have down well in this type of offense and could make a positive go at his final year. I would not be surprised if we picked up a faster and more powerful FA as Koetter will have some say as to what he wants to do.
WR - We are nothing like the Jags here. Their top two couldn't fit into Meier or Weems' jock strap. I'm serious when I say that. Would you trade Weems for Mike Thomas? I would probably gripe about it.
He likes to send these guys on option routes. Intermediate to long. rarely short. One may be give a option medium, where the receiver may stay at medium, but that's about it. You will rarely see anything short like we have from Mularkey...like those routes that catch Roddy on the LOS and expects him to pick up a yard...I guess. That will be the RB's job, but even he will be out somewhere from 3-4yds already. Slots see a lot of slant routes...a lot of them. A LOT...you'd never know in J-Ville since those passes were often thrown to MJD
TE - Deep threat? Oh yeah, this guy ran a 4.8 coming out of UCLA and I doubt he runs that now. Do you think Tony G still has that speed? Someone posted last year that he clocked an awesome 4.74 during TC...that's pretty good and I wouldn't doubt it considering his shape and health conscious lifestyle.
Koetter likes deep passes to TE's as they create serious mismatches. I would love to see what he has in mind.
Red zone - We have seen for ourselves that he calls decent red zone plays. I'm sure there won't be as many empty backfields for those short ones.
RE: My Thinking On The New OC - Paulitik - 01-17-2012 03:47 AM
As far as what he claims to be his offensive preferences, and what he wants to do, I really like it. It's the stuff I want to hear. It's definitely adding the elements I want to see. He comes off as the Anti-Mularkey in his interviews. I just don't see anything on his resume that has proven to me that he is a competent play caller, or that he's had any significant successes that tells me he can get us over the playoff hump we keep tripping over.
If we were coming off a debacle of a season, where we were getting a new, offensive minded coach, and this was his hire, I would totally understand this hire, and not have a problem with it. But considering that we have an offense in place, and are trying to take the next step and have success in the playoffs, this hire does nothing to address that. Especially when the guy has a reputation of blowing big games throughout his career.
After the Blank presser, I was comforted in hearing that we'd be getting fresh perspectives that didn't necessarily come from Smitty's past. I assumed that since Smitty was a defensive minded coach, we would definitely go in a different direction and hire an unrelated OC, which is why I never bought the Billick talk. This hire is befuddling. It really kind of slaps down what was said in the presser, and I think that's why many of us were so shocked. Too bad you can't say that without getting piled up on.
I think any competent OC can succeed with our talent, so I'm excited to see what he can do with it. I'm just not going to go into it too optimistically. I've had enough let downs, and my trust level with Smitty is gone.
RE: My Thinking On The New OC - Knight of God - 01-17-2012 04:17 AM
TBH, we look good on paper regardless who the OC is, but if you listen to his interview he isn't fooled by, "its a passing league". Man 3 out of the 4 teams looking at the SB are power running, defense teams, with field general style QB's. Not exactly elite types.
Koetter says he realizes it. Now for guys like me and yourself this is not what we wanted to hear under any circumstance, but I can't change it and neither can you and arguing back and forth with guys we've known on the MB's for years over guys who DEFINITELY won't be here as long as we have already been fans isn't going to help matters.
I only recently started liking TD, but I never really cared for Smitty. I really dislike his defenses...BBDB is his...rest assured I know that one for a solid fact. If we don't win a playoff game, it doesn't matter who we have as OC. Smith along with his whole posse will be out and we will be in rebuild mold.
RE: My Thinking On The New OC - Radical - 01-17-2012 04:43 AM
BBDB won Superbowls in 06, 04, 03, 02, and 01, and has been to that many more just this past decade. Our brand of it goes back to the Steelers, and the BBDB philosophy has been around for a while. I can get disliking it, but you can't doubt its success.
RE: My Thinking On The New OC - Knight of God - 01-17-2012 04:55 AM
Dude, Mike Nolan did not run BBDB for the Ravens okay. Second favorite team that was not run their SB year. Belicheck had the Multi or Hybrid in place in his run as well (he is credited with using a hyper aggressive form unlike Smitty's). Bucs ran the Tampa 2 not BBDB, similar in that it uses the philosophy in the 2 deep zone, but its not the one or even that similar to what we have here.
The only one of those that is correct is '06 being the Steelers and they don't run it all of the time. We run BBDB 90% of the time. Now tell me how you figured on your dates, so that I can correct you as you just tried to correct me.
RE: My Thinking On The New OC - Knight of God - 01-17-2012 05:04 AM
You have to be careful about "bend but don't break" and what you think it is and what it isn't. Its not really a style, but rather a mentality. You can allow yards so long as there are no first downs, but Mike Smith runs the prevent style which is the least aggressive of all. You can use man coverage and the occasional blitz, but the object isn't to stop an offense but rather to slow them down. Sacks are unnecessary, but turnovers are expected through causing the offense to have to "adjust" their play.
The reality is that it is made to lessen penalties, but keep an offense from getting frequent 1st downs.
The Steelers have had the more aggressive style in their 3-4, but the idea is more loose. You expect the offesne to attack, but make them pay for it.
The Ravens have been playing Read and React since about 2000. The idea there is to have more freedom to act and make plays based on what is seen.
Belicheck uses BBDB, but uses so many other looks on top of that you can't call it.
RE: My Thinking On The New OC - Knight of God - 01-17-2012 05:16 AM
Radical, here is the thing. Nearly every team in the NFL uses BBDB, but when its spoken of in terms of Smitty we are talking about a WAY different animal, so with that the Packers used a version of it last year. The trouble lies in the idea of playing it as a preventive measure rather than a destructive one. His version of BBDB is difficult to learn, mostly because the zone coverage is static and can actually move a DB out of play. The worst part is when you place your DL's into zone coverage at the wrong time then leave nothing to help the linebackers to play aggressive.
At its core BBDB used as a functioning element in game situations is one thing, but using it as your total defense works very little verses passes down the middle, and even then it really depends on the assignment of the FS.
BBDB (our style) is actually very vanilla and non aggressive so no I hate the style in THAT particular fashion. Since BBDB is generalized and I never specified...I hate Smitty's style of it.
RE: My Thinking On The New OC - Radical - 01-17-2012 05:44 AM
(01-17-2012 04:55 AM)Knight of God Wrote: Dude, Mike Nolan did not run BBDB for the Ravens okay. Second favorite team that was not run their SB year. Belicheck had the Multi or Hybrid in place in his run as well (he is credited with using a hyper aggressive form unlike Smitty's). Bucs ran the Tampa 2 not BBDB, similar in that it uses the philosophy in the 2 deep zone, but its not the one or even that similar to what we have here.
2006 Colts, the Patriots all three of their years, the 03 Bucs. I have no idea what you're talking about with Mike Nolan and the Ravens. I didn't mention them.
First off, I don't know if we're on the same page with BBDB. It's a philosophy more than an actual scheme. The idea being to play off and keep the play in front of you, having a strong line, and forcing field goals by using the end zone as an extra man to strangle the offense.
Smith's brand of BBDB came from Chuck Noll and the Pittsburgh Steelers, passed down through Jack Del Rio, John Fox, and Tony Dungy. All you have to do is follow the coaching tree. It's Cover 2, all of them with slightly different takes on it. Smith gets his from Jack Del Rio, who was influenced heavily by Tony Dungy and to a lesser extent, John Fox, who both were underneath Chuck Noll. There's a bit of Lou Saban influence in there as well, but that's besides the point.
RE: My Thinking On The New OC - Aftermath - 01-17-2012 06:06 AM
(01-17-2012 05:44 AM)Radical Wrote: 2006 Colts, the Patriots all three of their years, the 03 Bucs. I have no idea what you're talking about with Mike Nolan and the Ravens. I didn't mention them.Ravens won the Super Bowl in 2001, I think you were listing regular seasons but it looked like Super Bowl years.
2000 season>01 Super Bowl
RE: My Thinking On The New OC - ggp - 01-17-2012 06:48 AM
The BBDB is an idea approach, when you do not have high caliber players on defense. By forcing offenses to perform flawlessly, you use the percentages to get you off the field. If the offense makes it to the red zone, the compressed field gives the defense an advantage in coverage.
We are all sick of the BBDB because we want a DOMINANT defense. One that punishes and humiliates offenses by taking the ball away. We need to improve at two positions to have a shot at such a defense: DT and Safety.
We need a FS that is not only quick but that can out smart the QB. Reed, Polamalu and couple of others are such FS's. Right now, we have DeCoud, a guy that is physically capable but is often out of position to make plays.
At DT, we have two reasonably quick guys (Babs and Peters) but we need a physically imposing guy. He should be able to punch the middle of the pocket and make the QB uncomfortable, but he should also be able to demand double teams on run plays. A DT like that will allow his LB's to fly to the ball and create loss of yardage plays.
The onus is on TD to find such players.