NFL: Pat Kirwan discusses Joe Flacco vs. Matt Ryan - Printable Version
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Pat Kirwan discusses Joe Flacco vs. Matt Ryan - The Falcon Jedi - 05-31-2011 07:25 PM
As the late comedian Rodney Dangerfield used to say, "I don't get no respect." The same holds true for certain players around the league.
Last week, I had to react to the fact that Eli Manning didn't make the Top 100 Players of 2011, and it got me thinking about perception of other overlooked players. Whether it's public or media-driven, there's simply not enough attention paid to certain guys. We recognize they're good, but we don't always see them as really good.
Some players deserve recognition for just how good they are, and hopefully this will shed a little light on what they bring.
Freeman or Flacco?
The debate between picking Josh Freeman or Joe Flacco comes down to weighing potential against results. Elliot Harrison examines the case for both young quarterbacks. More ...
» Kirwan's QB rankings
» Eli Manning overlooked by peers
» Young QBs crack top 100
Joe Flacco, QB, Ravens
While Flacco came in at No. 90 on the top 100, there's a case he could have come in higher. He's led his team to the playoffs in each of his three seasons. In that time, Flacco has thrown 60 touchdowns, 34 interceptions and has an 87.9 passer rating.
Tell me how much different people perceive Matt Ryan, who, in the same amount of time, has thrown 66 touchdowns, 34 interceptions and has an 86.9 passer rating? Ryan is 0-2 in playoffs as compared to Flacco's 4-3 postseason record. This past season, Flacco threw 25 touchdowns to just 10 interceptions. Even though those numbers compare favorably to Ryan's 28 TDs and nine picks, try and find a fan who thinks the two quarterbacks are in the same class.
There seems to be rumors floating around that Flacco doesn't do the extra work required to be great, something I find hard to believe after discussing his preparation with him a number of times.
Kirwan's RB rankings
Pat Kirwan breaks down the best running backs in the NFL today, a look that acknowledges Matt Forte is not flashy, but is really solid in all phases of the game. More ...
» Eagles' McCoy deserves more love
Matt Forte, RB, Bears
Forte is an all-around back who lives in the shadows of greats like Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson and Michael Turner. To appreciate Forte, you really have to look at the total yardage picture and not just the rushing totals. Over the past three years, Forte has gained 4,731 total yards with 25 touchdowns. Steven Jackson has 4,783 yards and 18 touchdowns over the same period of time. Turner has 4,102 yards and 39 scores. Jamaal Charles has 3,981 yards and 17 TDs. Darren McFadden only has 3,050 yards and 15 touchdowns.
Point being, Forte is every bit the weapon other backs are around the league. However, for some reason, he isn't on the tip of anyone's tongue when the great runners are discussed.
Osi Umenyiora, DE, Giants
Who forced a league-leading 10 fumbles last season? Umenyiora achieved the feat to go along with his 11.5 sacks. In fact, he has 19 forced fumbles and 31.5 sacks over the past three years. Compare those numbers to John Abraham with 35 sacks and seven forced fumbles or Dwight Freeney's 34 sacks and 10 forced fumbles.
The next closest player to forcing fumbles over the past three seasons is James Harrison with 18. Sacks are great, but getting the ball jarred loose and creating a potential turnover is more important to most coaches. Not many can hang with Umenyiora in that regard.
The Top 100: Players of 2011
"The Top 100: Players of 2011" countdown continues on NFL Network on Sunday, June 5 at 8 p.m. ET. Stay tuned for a reaction show after players Nos. 41-50 are revealed.
» Cast your votes for the "Top 100"
Santana Moss, WR, Redskins
Santana Moss is a free agent, but you wouldn't know it with all the speculation about Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Plaxico Burress and Chad Ochocinco. Santana Moss finished fourth in the NFL last year with 93 receptions and 10th in yardage. He hasn't missed a game in three years, you never hear a peep out of him and he's younger than the guys mentioned above. His six touchdown receptions tied him with Larry Fitzgerald, Santonio Holmes and DeSean Jackson. Santana Moss also had 61 of his 93 receptions for a first down, which was tied for fourth best in the league and more than Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Marques Colston or Dwayne Bowe.
The Giants' offensive line
Three years ago, the unit was talked about as one of the best in the NFL. However, the perception changed as the line began to be described as an aging group that needed to be rebuilt. Even though the line dealt with a number of injuries, it still graded out as one of the best, if not the best, in an overall view.
The Giants finished sixth in rushing yardage, tied for sixth in yards per attempt and sixth in rushing touchdowns. Things were even better when it came to pass protection. They were tied for the fewest sacks allowed with 16 and third in hits allowed on the quarterback with 52. Eli Manning was sacked an average of once a game and hit three times.
RE: Pat Kirwan discusses Joe Flacco vs. Matt Ryan - Radical - 05-31-2011 08:09 PM
He isn't in the same class.
RE: Pat Kirwan discusses Joe Flacco vs. Matt Ryan - illmusic - 05-31-2011 09:35 PM
Stats are relative...the environment Ryan has put his stats up in have always been harsher...Flacco is a good young QB, Ryan is a good QB that happens to be young
RE: Pat Kirwan discusses Joe Flacco vs. Matt Ryan - phocis850 - 05-31-2011 11:01 PM
What exactly did they rate Ryan at again?
RE: Pat Kirwan discusses Joe Flacco vs. Matt Ryan - Nuccah - 06-01-2011 06:40 AM
Kirwan is looking at stats and not tape which easily dictates the difference between the two:
Flacco is a see-and-throw passer. He isn't a very good passer when it comes to timing and reading the defense. Once he sees someone open, he throws the ball. Give him time for somebody to get open, and he will tear you a new one.
Ryan is the opposite of that. He knows when and where someone will get open from the snap of the ball and doesn't need to wait for someone to get open to know they will be.
No one argues that Flacco has the stronger arm, that is obvious. However, my case is easily supported by sack numbers. Ryan has 59 with slightly more passing attempts to Flacco's 109 (and, consequently, double the yardage).
RE: Pat Kirwan discusses Joe Flacco vs. Matt Ryan - The Falcon Jedi - 06-01-2011 05:55 PM
RE: Pat Kirwan discusses Joe Flacco vs. Matt Ryan - Jesus - 06-01-2011 11:44 PM
Matt has two eyebrows.
Flacco has one
RE: Pat Kirwan discusses Joe Flacco vs. Matt Ryan - The Falcon Jedi - 06-02-2011 12:00 AM
Flacco is a good QB, but he came up in the right system for him where he wasnt asked to do too much. He had the luxury of feeling comfortable.
RE: Pat Kirwan discusses Joe Flacco vs. Matt Ryan - TallDrink26 - 06-02-2011 01:43 PM
Im putting more stock into the opinion of pro football players than Kirwan. Up until the 2010 playoffs the Ravens won playoff games despite Flacco except when he was so inexplicably bad they couldnt overcome his performance such as 08 vs the Steelers and 09 vs the Colts. His game vs Chiefs last year was good almost throwing for 300yrds and 2 tds but then 125 td and pick in own territory vs Steelers. Maybe Ryan plays terrible too against Steelers in playoffs, its the tallest task. Flacco is good though and does have at least one solid performance in the playoffs
RE: Pat Kirwan discusses Joe Flacco vs. Matt Ryan - karst41 - 06-04-2011 03:31 PM
Kirwan's Topics is misleading and therefore a Bull Shit Topic.
The only valid question on any debate over Ryan a Flappo is this.
Would the Falcons been able to build a team around Joe Flacco ?
Hell No, Flacco would have been a Bust In Atlanta.
Had the Ravens been in a position to draft Ryan, they would have won at
the least 1 Lombardi , maybe 2.