I think we are being feed a bunch of bullshit by Falcons management - Printable Version
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I think we are being feed a bunch of bullshit by Falcons management - Swift Is a Die Hard - 03-09-2011 10:30 AM
The whole thing about ' we need more explosiveness ' . No shit yet TD felt the need to draft a OLB over a potential explosive player in Dez last year . I think front office is putting that out as a excuse cause the way they built this team was to control clock minimize mistakes and play solid cover 2 core defense . When did all of a sudden our brain trust realize we need explosive players ? What was so explosive about Packers ? Yea James Jones and Jordy Nelson are nice players but not explosive by any means . So 3 years into this process they built this core TD traded away a 2nd round pick for great TE what part of the process was that trading away a pic for a aging TE who even in 09 showed no signs of explosiveness . He then opted to resign Jenkins and Chauncey Davis 2 decent contributors to medium sized contracts . The. Gives Dunta Robinson a huge contract . What TD was putting together was a solid team that played smart and sound football and fit his mold now after a blow out playoff loss Now comes a excuse of we need more game changers . It's just a bunch of horse shit . This team is no where closer to winning a chip then we were during Vick days . I do believe we have the QB and I do believe Smith is a good coach . I'm not convinced TD is the guy to Help build the team . He got the foundation up but for us to take next step TD Needs to be doing a better job with his draft picks and instead of talking about it show the fans . The Kerry Meier are not cutting it
RE: I think we are being feed a bunch of bullshit by Falcons management - g-dawg - 03-09-2011 11:40 AM
very unfair post. Thomas Dimitroff has had 3 years to shape this team. I'm not in love with all of Dimitroff's moves either. I really wanted Clay Mathews when TD took Peria Jerry and that was and still is my biggest complaint. I thought a 2nd rounder was too much to give for Tony Gonzalez - Eagles wanted Gonzo to but would only offer a 3rd rounder. I thought Sam Baker was a reach in 1st round but understood why Dimitroff did it.
Having said that, Thomas Dimitroff has developed a solid nucleus of players that the Atlanta Falcons have NEVER had in the 45 years of existance - think about that. The Falcons have had some good teams but the 1980 and 1998 Falcons were not that young. The Falcons have had a winning season three years running, have made playoffs two out of the last three years and we have the best head coach in the history of the organization - yes, Mike Smith is a better head coach for Atlanta than Dan Reeves was (not saying his career is better as Reeves is a HOF head coach, but he was not that good in Atlanta). The ultimate decision on the coaching hire was Thomas Dimitroff as well.
Sean Weatherspoon was hurt most of last year and so we have had two years "back-to-back" of our first round pick playing in a limited number of games and making minimal impact. So, yeah most of us feel a little "unsatisfied" right now.
Its easy to focus on the negatives and forget the positives that Thomas Dimitroff has brought to this organization. Well, let me remind you of the positives:
1) Falcons have a franchise QB that was selected at #3 overall - Matt Ryan - you, me and most fans were wanting Glen-Freaking-Dorsey to be drafted instead. Without Matt, we would not have 3 winning seasons and 2 playoff appearances. Matt is still developing but he is the leader this team needs and he has heart, talent, desire to be great.
2) First free agent move - Michael Turner - simply put, a very, very good runningback that allows the Falcons to play the ground game victoriously.
3) Curtis Lofton draft pick - great, great pick for the Atlanta Falcons. This guy should have been a 1st round pick and Falcons grabbed him in 2nd round.
4) William Moore - for all the hand-wringing over Moore, his injury history and lost rookie year - yes, I gave up on him - Moore is looking good and should be a force for the next 5-7 years.
Much of Dimitroff's past moves are still up in the air as to whether they will be graded good or bad:
1) Peria Jerry, DT
2) Sean Weatherspoon, OLB
3) Garrett Reynolds, RT
4) Joe Hawley, OC/OG
5) Mike Johnson, OG
If those guys pan out, then all of a sudden Dimitroff will reach "god-like" status with the masses again. If Dimitroff has a good draft in 2011, makes a great signing and the guys above develop - things will be looking up.
The base of talent has been laid. Now we just need to start dressing it up. If you think about it, the "explosive players" - especially the ones on offense - have shorter careeers so it makes sense to draft those guys 3-4 years into a roster rebuild.
Remember Swifty, when Dimitroff came in here, he had to GUT the Falcons untalented roster in 2008. Just throw in a little perspective. Dimitroff is not perfect and he's made some mistakes but his track record is very good and he knows what he's doing.
RE: I think we are being feed a bunch of bullshit by Falcons management - Swift Is a Die Hard - 03-09-2011 12:38 PM
First off very solid post g dawg
I disagree though with you saying TD had to gut this roster . There are still main contributors from the Rich McKay era from Abe to Roddy White and on and on . Td brought in Turner now that was a rb being brought in on prime of his career . Turner has good 2-3 years left so his window is closing and Tony G window is already starting to close . So while TD set foundation for future we still have a win now mentality just by his moves lately plus signing of Dunta Robinson
RE: I think we are being feed a bunch of bullshit by Falcons management - Swift Is a Die Hard - 03-09-2011 12:41 PM
I also think TD is changing up his philosophy maybe cause he has come to the realization that game has changed and to become a more potent and eventually championship team you need to open offense up . So at first we brought Mike Mularkey along he is good ball control smart OC now to we change philosophy of franchise ( we need more play makers excuse) after this current philopshy hasn't netted us a playoff win
RE: I think we are being feed a bunch of bullshit by Falcons management - TheDirtyWord - 03-09-2011 01:36 PM
(03-09-2011 10:30 AM)Swift Is a Die Hard Wrote: The whole thing about ' we need more explosiveness ' . No shit yet TD felt the need to draft a OLB over a potential explosive player in Dez last year . I think front office is putting that out as a excuse cause the way they built this team was to control clock minimize mistakes and play solid cover 2 core defense . When did all of a sudden our brain trust realize we need explosive players ? What was so explosive about Packers ? Yea James Jones and Jordy Nelson are nice players but not explosive by any means . So 3 years into this process they built this core TD traded away a 2nd round pick for great TE what part of the process was that trading away a pic for a aging TE who even in 09 showed no signs of explosiveness . He then opted to resign Jenkins and Chauncey Davis 2 decent contributors to medium sized contracts . The. Gives Dunta Robinson a huge contract . What TD was putting together was a solid team that played smart and sound football and fit his mold now after a blow out playoff loss Now comes a excuse of we need more game changers . It's just a bunch of horse shit . This team is no where closer to winning a chip then we were during Vick days . I do believe we have the QB and I do believe Smith is a good coach . I'm not convinced TD is the guy to Help build the team . He got the foundation up but for us to take next step TD Needs to be doing a better job with his draft picks and instead of talking about it show the fans . The Kerry Meier are not cutting it
I think hindsight can is 20/20. Last off-season when I broached the subject about prioritizing WR...for the most part, I was shouted down because we had other needs that were of greater priority. And I don't dispute that we could address several areas in improving the roster. but overall, 12 months ago, explosiveness was not considered a priority concern by most. Now it is...
When you ask what is so explosive about the Packers, Greg Jennings is a big time WR and one of the best YAC players in the league. And while he missed most of last season, Jermichael Finley is a game changing type of TE target. There are different ways to skin a cat, and Mike McCarthy's offense offers more opportunities for big plays than does Mularkey's but if I'm grading out both offenses:
Rodgers > Ryan
Jennings = White
Nelson > Jenkins
Driver > Douglas
Finley > Gonzo
Turner > Starks/Grant
Finley is included in this conversation even though he missed most of 2010 because if we are talking about franchise building - Finley is clearly part of the long term picture.
As to the Falcons Championship chances...we were Vick INT in the end zone from hosting Seattle instead of GB, and most likely CHI in the NFC Championship. It didn't work out that way. I think we all feel that terrible aftertaste because of the thrashing we endured at the hands of GB, but IMO that was a case of a team that peaked at the right time in the season. We did not. However, in looking at the foundtation of the team, which is built on adherance to sound fundamentals, execution and a concept of 'team first'...with that now in place and established, certain tactical elements are bubbling up to the forefront of identifying and providing an answer to the question 'how do the Falcons get better?'.
Your point on Dez Bryant seems to nelglect that fact that despite his immense physical gifts, Bryant was not a model pro in terms of work habits and preparation during his rookie season. Quite frankly, the Falcons in my estimation are an organization that does not want to have to teach such character traits to their draftees. They expect those traits to already be in place.
If you read the Belichick biography writted by David Halberstram, one of the value Belichick places above all others is passion and sacrifice for the game of football. He offerred assistants less money than competing organizations because he wanted to see that commitment to learning football his way and that has carried over to player evaluation as well. And while he will take some calculated risks (i.e: Corey Dillon, Randy Moss), for the most part, the Patriot Way is very identifiable by the type of character their players represent and demonstrate. With Dimitroff coming from that philosophy of franchise building - I simply don't think Bryant was ever on the Falcons radar. I'd be surprised if I learned he was. **and actually, that is why I think Julio Jones is an absolute dream of a fit for the Falcons.
I agreed with the Robinson move at the time and am still holding out hope that he can show better than he did in 2010. His acquisition filled a BIG hole in our line-up. I had big expectations for Spoon, and still do. Is it fair to be disappointed in his performance? I don't think so - it's a tough transition from college to pro no matter how talented you are. 12 months ago, all of us wondered if Will Moore was alive. Now, we see him as one of the biggest building blocks of our defensive puzzle.
Did TD gut this team? Well, I think the Falcons weren't as bad as many people made them out to be after the 2007 season. 2007 was a nightmare with the Vick & Petrino debacles, but prior to that, they were simply an average to below-average outfit. But the notion that it was a 3 year rebuilding project was overblown. It certainly helped that we found a franchise QB immediately who was able to contribute immediately in Ryan. But to the original point, some pieces were already in place.
For the most part - TD's drafts have been solid. I think it's difficult to hold torn ACL's against any GM. Dimitroff has drafted 3 guys in 3 years who have suffered this injury, a 1st, 3rd & 5th round choice. That will crimp anyones draft record if your evaluating it after 3 years. As for trading for Gonzo - the trade as it appears today is Gonzo for Javier Arenas. Is that good ROI? I'd say so, even if the benefits were certainly realized on a shorter timetable.
Bottomline is that our defense has shown improvement each season under Smith/Van Gorder and is still a very young unit. Are some older/veteran difference makers approaching the end of their careers? Sure - Abraham at this point is year to year, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. And on offense, some deficiencies really started to rear their head in 2010 which Dimitroff and Smith have openly acknowledged. Assuming they take strides to fix a problem they've identified, and we also as a fan base have identified, then we have to allow them that benefit of fixing those issues.
RE: I think we are being feed a bunch of bullshit by Falcons management - Swift Is a Die Hard - 03-09-2011 02:10 PM
Good Post DW
Like you said to . You have to factor in scheme to equation where Packers rely more on Passing then we are . We are built to control clock and pound away with Turner now he wants to change philosophy add explosive players and were set . The Cowboys have a ton of explosive players doesn't get them anywhere to
RE: I think we are being feed a bunch of bullshit by Falcons management - ChrisD - 03-09-2011 02:11 PM
My honest opinion,
I think TD made a bad choice with Peria Jerry, no doubt (He could have taken Matthews!) And even with Sam Baker, he was really a stretch in my opinion, but like someone else said, you can see why TD did it without a doubt.
I don't think saying that the whole "We need explosiveness" idea popped into their head all of a sudden is a fair assumption. I'm still one to believe that TD has had a draft plan, and continues to follow it. The main focus? To make sure we have a team that can control the clock, and limit mistakes on defense against offenses. And that's really what we have right now. So everything is going to plan. I think the final piece to TD's puzzle is the explosiveness. While he could have had Dez last season in the draft, I think it's safe to say that there were pretty good chances of Dez becoming an injury prone receiver after taking an entire year off of football. Couple that with the fact that, sure, maybe we didn't get an explosive LB like we were hoping, but we definitely got a consistent one when he's on the field. He doesn't miss tackles, and he was starting to get better week by week with his reads.
This year I think they want to get the explosiveness to fill the final gap of the puzzle. When you think about it, what's the point of having explosive players your first few years of rebuilding? By the time the team is super-bowl ready, those explosive players could already be burnt out, or starting to decline. Explosive players are great, but they don't stay explosive long. Instead, they start losing their explosiveness after their 3rd or 4th year, and start developing other skills to keep them on top of their game. I like the way TD has been drafting. Build up the defense with young guys that can hold offenses and that won't make mistakes, then go after players that will be game changers.
As for the Gonzalez trade involving a 2nd round pick, I don't look at it as a bad pick at all. Especially since we will be getting 3 seasons out of him. By no means have we been ready to draft a TE yet. We have a lot of holes that need filling (Especially when we first acquired Gonzo. And while the debate is there, honestly, there weren't too many good TE's the past couple years outside of Gresham, and Hernandez. And those were long shots for the Falcons. Gonzo was a good deal, we can look into drafting a tight end NEXT season I believe.
RE: I think we are being feed a bunch of bullshit by Falcons management - g-dawg - 03-09-2011 02:24 PM
my biggest frustration again was not taking Clay Matthews - what puzzles me there is that Matthews was on the radar of Thomas Dimitroff and Falcons brought Matthews in for a private workout. I really thought it was about a 50% chance that the Falcons were going to take Matthews.
I think at some later point Dimitroff dismissed Matthews for the Falcons because he perceived him to be a 3-4 OLB only. Who knows? I still think Matthews would have been a playmaking fool in Falcons 4-3 system - probably not as prolific as what he is doing in Dom Capers 3-4 scheme - but the guy is a flat-out stud and would be successful in any scheme - oh well, it didn't happen.
RE: I think we are being feed a bunch of bullshit by Falcons management - Paulitik - 03-09-2011 02:58 PM
I see a lot of Ted Thompson comparisons and considering he's been the Pack GM for almost twice the time that TD has, I don't think it's fair. If we get a ring in the next 2 years, I'll consider TD the better GM, it's not like Green Bay was terrible when Thompson came in.
RE: I think we are being feed a bunch of bullshit by Falcons management - Jesus - 03-09-2011 03:08 PM
It isn't fair to look back and say we should have drafted that guy, look how good he is for everyone else. What if we drafted Matthews and he struggled in our system? What if Jamal Anderson turned out to be the stud that all the experts predicted when he was drafted? I'm not all that impressed with Dez Bryant. Yes he had a couple of nice returns on punts but it seems unlikely he would have started as a WR in our system, even with Jenkins injured.
And despite all the hate for the GM and the dislike of the pics which of these teams had a better regular season record:
We had a great year last year. The collapse in the playoffs was more than just Chris Owens or the lack of a playmaker. Everything went wrong. It happens. Most likely it won't happen again.
There are a lot of good things happening in Atlanta and a lot to grow on. I don't think we'll be out of the equation next year.