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+--- Thread: Is our offensive line missing Ben Hartsock? (/Thread-Is-our-offensive-line-missing-Ben-Hartsock)
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Is our offensive line missing Ben Hartsock? - Sporkdevil - 10-20-2010 12:15 AM
I've done a bit of thinking.
Our offensive line looked pretty good in 2008.
Terrible in 2009. We haven't been much better in 2010.
So, either the exact same 5 players in the same system with the same RB and QB has regressed as a whole, or maybe, we are missing that blocking element at TE. In 08, we had Hartsock and Peele, with Peele being the pass catching TE.
That's when there was all this annoying business about our TE's couldn't catch (true), but now our TE's can catch, but ain't a damn one can block.
Did we give up on our smash mouth football in order to improve our pass catching? Did we just assume our OL would improve and that we could manage with these TE's?
RE: Is our offensive line missing Ben Hartsock? - SeaMill - 10-20-2010 12:20 AM
Its like what I have felt and someone else posted on here. MM isn't using to pass catching tight ends and he is going out of his way to get TG involved. If he just blocks maybe the #3 or #2 wr get more opportunities. On run plays he is just a blocker, his primary duty anyway.
RE: Is our offensive line missing Ben Hartsock? - The Falcon Jedi - 10-20-2010 12:25 AM
The problem with our O-Line is that Sam Baker has lost focus in his job. His constant penalties, slow moving his feet, getting embarassed around the edge. And then there is Todd McClure - he is past retirement, and needs to just go. He is too small, too old, to handle 3-4 NTs in this league and is getting bullied. No push whatsoever. Dahl and Clabo... I dont know what those 2 are doing this season but they arent moving anybody or creating gaps on run plays. And they both suck in pass protection. Justin Blaylock I dont know.
RE: Is our offensive line missing Ben Hartsock? - Sporkdevil - 10-20-2010 12:32 AM
Well, I dunno what the fuck Clabo thinks he is doing, but nothing should really be creating problems for Baker other than Blalock. Well, nothing should assuming he didn't used to have a purely blocking TE lined up next to him, acting as basically another lineman, and be replaced with a guy who can technically block, but mainly is there to catch.
I think we spent a lot to get a guy who can both block and catch, when we really need a guy who is great at blocking. Either our offensive line has regressed, or we miss that extra guy out there blocking the run and pass.
RE: Is our offensive line missing Ben Hartsock? - ChrisD - 10-20-2010 01:35 AM
If Mularky would let Gonzalez stay in and block on a few passing plays here and there like another person mentioned above, I think a lot of people would see that Tony G can in fact block. They utilized him in that way in Kansas City, as well as his receiving abilities. Stop trying to get Gonzalez involved in the pass game, and use him like any other normal tight end would be used, and we have ourselves a running football team once again. And we will be able to get the ball to Roddy, Jenkins and Douglas more often.
RE: Is our offensive line missing Ben Hartsock? - DemBirds - 10-20-2010 01:42 AM
Didn't Hartsock miss a lot of time in '08?
RE: Is our offensive line missing Ben Hartsock? - Radical - 10-20-2010 02:56 AM
(10-20-2010 01:42 AM)DemBirds Wrote: Didn't Hartsock miss a lot of time in '08?
Missed the last 5 games of 08.
RE: Is our offensive line missing Ben Hartsock? - Tandy - 10-20-2010 09:45 AM
I posted about this before. It's not that we need to have another blocking TE - it's that we need to have another blocking TE to compensate for the underperformance of our OLine.
In '08 - we didn't have Gonzalez. We had Hartsock and Peelle and we used 2 and 3 TE sets to help block on pass plays. We also faced average to good defensive fronts and all 4-3 fronts except for San Diego. We also had Weiner in most games in place of Baker. These all helped factor in the success of the OLine.
Fast forward to '09. We faced the top defenses in the league and more 3-4 fronts. We no longer had the extra blocking TE's in place for additional help during pass plays. Weiner retired and left Baker alone to handle the left tackle position. Result - less time on pass plays and more injuries to our offense, which then snowballed into worse play. We were lucky to pull 9 wins out of last year.
Now to this year. We have played 4 of 6 games on the road, 4 of 6 fronts were in the 3-4 formation and we have faced top tier defenses. This has resulted in a horrendous amount of pressure on the QB and led to hurried throws, throws while being hit and short, fast completions to avoid losing the ball or getting sacked.
In my humble opinion, until we either get something fixed on that line or add some additional blocking help in some form, our problems will continue.
However, we are fortunate to only have 2 more 3-4 defensive fronts this year - Baltimore and Green Bay. Let's hope we can hold up better against the 4-3 fronts. I give the Eagles D credit because they are uber fast and bring the pressure constantly with exotic blitzes, which gives them the same advantage a 3-4 defense has against our OLine.
RE: Is our offensive line missing Ben Hartsock? - papachaz - 10-20-2010 09:56 AM
(10-20-2010 02:56 AM)Radical Wrote: Missed the last 5 games of 08.
if i remember correctly, didn't matt's numbers fall off significantly the last 4 or 5 games of 08? any correlation i wonder?
RE: Is our offensive line missing Ben Hartsock? - Tandy - 10-20-2010 11:00 AM
(10-20-2010 09:56 AM)chazmataz Wrote: if i remember correctly, didn't matt's numbers fall off significantly the last 4 or 5 games of 08? any correlation i wonder?
Not significantly. I do a breakdown of our passing stats in a spreadsheet and then it calculates it by different scenarios - home/away 1st 4 - last 4 mid games, etc.
One of the calculations is first 10 - last 6 - here are those numbers from '08
1ST 10
Result 6-4/60%
Pass 169 of 283 for 59.7% and 2159 yds, 11 TD, 6 Int Rating 87.8
Sacks 12 for 80 yds
Rush 31 for 72 yds = avg 2.3 and 0 TDs
Fumbles 2 with 1 lost
Per Game = 17 of 28 for 215.9 yds, 1.1 TD, .6 Int, 1.2 sacks, 7.6 ypa
LAST 6
5-1/83%
Pass 96 of 151 for 63.6% and 1281 yds, 5 TD, 5 Int Rating 87.7
Sacks 5 for 24 yds
Rush 24 for 32 yds = avg 1.3 and 1 TD
Fumbles 4 with 0 lost
Per Game = 16 of 25 for 213.5 yds, .833 TDs, .833 Ints, .833 sacks, 8.5 ypa