Why Matt Ryan and Mularky are more the problem then oline!

[cooperbh]

(01-24-2011 11:01 PM)Swift Is a Die Hard Wrote:  this


and there oline has been decimated with injuries this year

there efficiency only dropped a lil since Faneca left but still one of better olines in league


love how cooper avoids though my response about Packers oline being worse when numbers dont lie

Because the Packers O-line isn't worse. Not by a long shot. Your first mistake was comparing a QB who played in 16 full games to one who only played in 12 full games.

All your answers can be found right here:
http://atlantafalconstalk.com/showthread.php?tid=3867

[Swift Is a Die Hard]

(01-25-2011 03:43 AM)cooperbh Wrote:  Because the Packers O-line isn't worse. Not by a long shot. Your first mistake was comparing a QB who played in 16 full games to one who only played in 12 full games.

All your answers can be found right here:
http://atlantafalconstalk.com/showthread.php?tid=3867

Aaron Rodgers played in 15 games this year ..he was out for a game with a concussion


Common sense .

GB allowed more sacks and QB hits in less pass attempts . FACT

GB total QBS Pass attempts 541 /38 sacks allowed ..thats 15 more sacks in less pass attempts and more QB hits..

common sense COOP


also LESS PASS ATTEMPTS THEN RYAN MORE YARDS ....NO ANSWER ?

[komic]

Ignoring comments after the first page due to homerism.... POINT BLANK PERIOD Swift is Right and Deserves alot of Rep for this thread.

[illmusic]

Everybody is talking about getting a deep threat but Ryan still needs to prove he can air it out consistently. He was habitually underthrowing and overthrowing receivers all year

[Statick]

I see Swift has evolved in his idiocy and hatred of a team he claims to love.

[FullMetalFalcon23]

You are comparing different QB styles. FFS this is getting real dull. I know everyone is entitled to opinion but bugger me with a stick side ways.

You cannot compare Apples with Oranges. Rogers is not an exclusive pocket passer he will extend the play much like how Brett used to, I think if he learned anything from him it was that. Matt is not good at staying alive and escaping a collapsing pocket, he is good however at negating pressure by getting the ball out quickly or throwing it away.

The receiving groups are another element in this equation. You have here in Atlanta only one true play maker, one person who can shake loose early to give their QB help. In Greenbay there are at least 4. The strengths of the Atlanta Falcons are not the strengths of Green Bay, they play different styles, Rogers airs it out a lot more which is also going to result in fewer pass attempts. Why does Rogers air out? because he is able to a extend a play by avoiding pass rush or scrambling out of the pocket. He might not be Mike Vick elusive, but he definitely reminds me of McNabb when he settled down, he airs out because his route tree is different to Matt's, but also the philosophy for Green Bay is to spread out the field. They are a notorious 11 personnel unit, compared to the Falcons who are probably more notorious for our 21 and even 22 groupings, because it is seen by many as so out of style that its worthy of throwback status. The personnel in that 11 grouping or ballers/ playmakers. If we go 11 personnell who would we see at the receiver positions Roddy, Jenkins and HD. Work on taking away Roddy and you are left facing Jenkins and HD, they might catch you off guard but they aren't going to show up all the time. On the Green Bay side, Jennings, Driver and Jones that's a trio of trouble there that forces you into picking your poison. Looking at the TE's I'd take Finley over Tony, because he is fresher and more dangerous, he is almost like having a 4th receiver out there.

I could go on. But the POINT ... the FACT is, Atlanta is set up different to Green Bay. You really want to make a proper critique you have to go deeper look at what Atlanta have had to do to get where they are and look at what GB had to do also. They are coming from 2 different places. From the top to the bottom they are different organisations. You should be grateful for the fact that 3 years removed from this "new franchise's" beginning, it has come had the opportunity to post 3 winning seasons, 2 post season appearances. I am not saying more should not be desired but you are acting as though this was a stable franchise with good pedigree that has the burden of the wankest QB in the history of QBs. Atlanta was a mess before the Vick saga a lot has changed since then. A lot has changed since Matt's first year, be mindful of the fact that this team is on the up its not on a down.

There is a lot of Matt bashing going along so I'm gonna pull out something that tells me our guy is going in the right direction but let's look at 2007 NFL draft 1st round QB's Jamarcus Russell.....JAMARCUS RUDDY RUSSELL 2006 NFL Draft Vince Young, Matt Leinheart, Jay Cutler (This year has somewhat saved his ass) 2005 NFL Draft Alex Smith, Aaron Rogers, Jason Campbell.

If you take Matt and Joe line them up against any of these QBs I do not see how based on their current progression you could place them outside of the top 3. Why? because they are both special QB's who have set a new bench mark for 1st round QB's to ascend/aspire too. After a long period of guys who have come in day 1 and stunk it up and then got better, or guys like Rogers who have had time to study the game and not get have to start in the deep end

[Paulitik]

(01-25-2011 11:26 AM)FullMetalFalcon23 Wrote:  You are comparing different QB styles. FFS this is getting real dull. I know everyone is entitled to opinion but bugger me with a stick side ways.

You cannot compare Apples with Oranges. Rogers is not an exclusive pocket passer he will extend the play much like how Brett used to, I think if he learned anything from him it was that. Matt is not good at staying alive and escaping a collapsing pocket, he is good however at negating pressure by getting the ball out quickly or throwing it away.

The receiving groups are another element in this equation. You have here in Atlanta only one true play maker, one person who can shake loose early to give their QB help. In Greenbay there are at least 4. The strengths of the Atlanta Falcons are not the strengths of Green Bay, they play different styles, Rogers airs it out a lot more which is also going to result in fewer pass attempts. Why does Rogers air out? because he is able to a extend a play by avoiding pass rush or scrambling out of the pocket. He might not be Mike Vick elusive, but he definitely reminds me of McNabb when he settled down, he airs out because his route tree is different to Matt's, but also the philosophy for Green Bay is to spread out the field. They are a notorious 11 personnel unit, compared to the Falcons who are probably more notorious for our 21 and even 22 groupings, because it is seen by many as so out of style that its worthy of throwback status. The personnel in that 11 grouping or ballers/ playmakers. If we go 11 personnell who would we see at the receiver positions Roddy, Jenkins and HD. Work on taking away Roddy and you are left facing Jenkins and HD, they might catch you off guard but they aren't going to show up all the time. On the Green Bay side, Jennings, Driver and Jones that's a trio of trouble there that forces you into picking your poison. Looking at the TE's I'd take Finley over Tony, because he is fresher and more dangerous, he is almost like having a 4th receiver out there.

I could go on. But the POINT ... the FACT is, Atlanta is set up different to Green Bay. You really want to make a proper critique you have to go deeper look at what Atlanta have had to do to get where they are and look at what GB had to do also. They are coming from 2 different places. From the top to the bottom they are different organisations. You should be grateful for the fact that 3 years removed from this "new franchise's" beginning, it has come had the opportunity to post 3 winning seasons, 2 post season appearances. I am not saying more should not be desired but you are acting as though this was a stable franchise with good pedigree that has the burden of the wankest QB in the history of QBs. Atlanta was a mess before the Vick saga a lot has changed since then. A lot has changed since Matt's first year, be mindful of the fact that this team is on the up its not on a down.

There is a lot of Matt bashing going along so I'm gonna pull out something that tells me our guy is going in the right direction but let's look at 2007 NFL draft 1st round QB's Jamarcus Russell.....JAMARCUS RUDDY RUSSELL 2006 NFL Draft Vince Young, Matt Leinheart, Jay Cutler (This year has somewhat saved his ass) 2005 NFL Draft Alex Smith, Aaron Rogers, Jason Campbell.

If you take Matt and Joe line them up against any of these QBs I do not see how based on their current progression you could place them outside of the top 3. Why? because they are both special QB's who have set a new bench mark for 1st round QB's to ascend/aspire too. After a long period of guys who have come in day 1 and stunk it up and then got better, or guys like Rogers who have had time to study the game and not get have to start in the deep end

Great post.

[Swift Is a Die Hard]

Fullmetal

This is not a bashing of Matt Ryan thread but as a fan base we are starting to fall into that Vick groupie area where the QB can't take any blame what so ever and it's not even about the play off loss . Matt Ryan is limited as a QB he doesn't have the tools of a guy like Aaron Rodgers that's fine but we as a fan base don't need to look at areas of our team and say these are our short comings . We are who we are. Run oriented offense with intermediate pass routes . We don't need to blame the oline like some of our fan base is doing as a reason why we are not a offensive juggernaut . I just listed the 3 reasons ahead . Matt Ryan is still a good QB and so is Flacco but they are not special like Rodgers is or ever will be .

We as a whole are limited to what we have at QB and as OC cause we will not be making a change any time soon , I also think our fan base is falling into where BLAME everyone oline , oc , wrs outside our QB who deserves a huge amount of blame for this playoff game

We treat this kid as a special QB and outside winning in regular season he has played terrible in his 2 biggest games . There is nobody saying we should make a change but let's stop blaming other aspects and get down to the culprit that our QB and system is limited

[FullMetalFalcon23]

(01-25-2011 11:52 AM)Swift Is a Die Hard Wrote:  Fullmetal

This is not a bashing of Matt Ryan thread but as a fan base we are starting to fall into that Vick groupie area where the QB can't take any blame what so ever and it's not even about the play off loss . Matt Ryan is limited as a QB he doesn't have the tools of a guy like Aaron Rodgers that's fine but we as a fan base don't need to look at areas of our team and say these are our short comings . We are who we are. Run oriented offense with intermediate pass routes . We don't need to blame the oline like some of our fan base is doing as a reason why we are not a offensive juggernaut . I just listed the 3 reasons ahead . Matt Ryan is still a good QB and so is Flacco but they are not special like Rodgers is or ever will be .

We as a whole are limited to what we have at QB and as OC cause we will not be making a change any time soon , I also think our fan base is falling into where BLAME everyone oline , oc , wrs outside our QB who deserves a huge amount of blame for this playoff game

We treat this kid as a special QB and outside winning in regular season he has played terrible in his 2 biggest games . There is nobody saying we should make a change but let's stop blaming other aspects and get down to the culprit that our QB and system is limited

Dude I'm gonna have to reserve judgement a lil while longer than you for now. Rogers is a QB now in his prime, he has had time to soak up a lot. Matt, Joe and these new guys are being asked to do it on the fly. He had time to soak up an offense and see it happen (not to say it hasn't evolved since he was there) He also had time in the weight room too, he wasn't asked to save a failing franchise from day one, or even play for a stronger franchise from day one. I am not taking anything away from Rogers the guy has developed into mint. But I can't close the book and pigeon hole some of these new guys when they have had less time and are doing really well, adjusting their game as they go along. I looked at Matt at the start of this season and I looked back at him to the start of his career he has physically developed. And I believe much like how his throws down the sideline have improved you will see an improvement in the zip too, although I still think it is a bit odd regarding his arm strength its not a sex cannon but he can throw it on a line, he doesn't throw pea shooters all over the field. That 1st pick against GB that throw was there but the timing was all off, and that was on Matt, Williams was beat and he tried to do too much and missed the window of opportunity. That is something that he will learn from. As good and great players learn from mistakes that haunt others.

[Swift Is a Die Hard]

I don't see where Ryan can improve on ? He had a very good season and the areas we all would love to see him prove just might not be physically possible we hear each year that his arm improved but it never trans late to on field and even with this core strengthing and the other nonsense . It is what it is he still a good QB just limited . Do I think he can lead us to super bowl with this oc I have my doubts though