That Horse Collar On The Opening Kickoff

[papachaz]

(08-29-2011 09:40 AM)Hit Stick Wrote:  They won't call it 99/100 they'll call it against Pitt only. Those refs were pretty bad on the bias. They didn't care about safety at all, look how many penalties they didn't call against Pitt on late hits and defenseless players. Give me a break, safety.

That was not a horsecollar go read the rule, it includes RIDING the player down to the ground by pulling on the back of his shoulderpads. That was clearly a hit from the side, that didn't have anything to do with a guy being pulled backwards. They got the flag because they went ape crazy and the refs gave it to them. Even the announcers (the very HOMER announcers) sounded very surprised they were looking for a flag.

horse collar has nothing to do with riding the player to the ground and everything to do with NOT grabbing inside the shoulder pads to drag someone down. as said, it's preseason for the refs too. yes the holding in the endzone was missed, and yes Bosher did a horse collar tackle. this was exactly the same kind of play called, i think it was Kolb last year who tackled Moore the same exact way. Yes should have been offsetting penalties.

[Hit Stick]

(08-29-2011 10:23 AM)papachaz Wrote:  horse collar has nothing to do with riding the player to the ground and everything to do with NOT grabbing inside the shoulder pads to drag someone down. as said, it's preseason for the refs too. yes the holding in the endzone was missed, and yes Bosher did a horse collar tackle. this was exactly the same kind of play called, i think it was Kolb last year who tackled Moore the same exact way. Yes should have been offsetting penalties.

This is false. It does have to do with riding the player to the ground. I'm at work so I can't look it up for you but it was expressly stated and even put on the screen during a few games last year with the typed out explanation of what a horse collar tackle was. They even put out a video example of it on nfl.com.

The only way to horsecollar someone is to grab inside the back of their neck, exclusively, and pull them down from behind, not hit them sideways out of bounds as Bosher did, it's EXCLUSIVE to being drug down from behind, I believe the terminology was 'ridden' to the ground. Basically a horse collar is what that dude did to TO, I believe that was the clip they played with it.

At this point I will have no further communication with you, the facts are out there and your opinion is incorrect, as was the call on the field.

[phocis850]

Bosher pulled the collar towards him and Brown fell backwards. Horsecollar tackle.

[papachaz]

(08-29-2011 11:28 AM)Hit Stick Wrote:  This is false. It does have to do with riding the player to the ground. I'm at work so I can't look it up for you but it was expressly stated and even put on the screen during a few games last year with the typed out explanation of what a horse collar tackle was. They even put out a video example of it on nfl.com.

The only way to horsecollar someone is to grab inside the back of their neck, exclusively, and pull them down from behind, not hit them sideways out of bounds as Bosher did, it's EXCLUSIVE to being drug down from behind, I believe the terminology was 'ridden' to the ground. Basically a horse collar is what that dude did to TO, I believe that was the clip they played with it.

At this point I will have no further communication with you, the facts are out there and your opinion is incorrect, as was the call on the field.

i could care less if you have any further communications with me, YOU sir are the one who is wrong, bosher clearly had brown by the shoulder pads and dragged him down from behind. how many posts in this thread have verified that, not just me but SEVERAL. thank you that i don't have to be bored with your 'know it all' attitude, especially when you're wrong. i'll go look up the rule and find the video, but he clearly had his hand inside the shoulder pads as he dragged him down.

[papachaz]

one definition
"The horse-collar tackle is an American football maneuver in which a defender tackles another player by grabbing the back-inside of an opponent's shoulder pads. The technique is most closely associated with Pro Bowl safety Roy Williams. This kind of tackle was banned from the NFL during the 2005 offseason; the rule forbidding it is often referred to in the press as "The Roy Williams Rule."[1] The rule was expanded to include the back of the jersey collar in 2006. The rule, with modifications, was adopted in college and high school football in 2008 and 2009, respectively"

a link to a USA article about 'the Roy Williams Rule"

LINK

in one article i read, when a defender grabs the offensive person by the back of the collar/shoulder pads, yet the runner carries him a few yards down the field (IE:riding the runner) and they both fall to the ground, it is NOT a horse collar tackle, because to qualify as a horse collar, the defender uses the leverage he gets by grabbing the shoulder pads and pulling or yanking the runner to the ground immediately. here's that link examples of horse collar/non horse collar plays

and the text from that article "Where and when on the field is it legal and where and when is it illegal? Here are some situations to test your understanding of the new rule.

Play One — After the snap from his own 20-yard line, the running back takes a pitch from the quarterback and runs around the right end. He breaks into the open and runs to the 35-yard line where a linebacker grabs him by the collar of his shoulder pad and immediately jerks him to the ground. Is this a legal tackle?

Answer — No, this is a horse-collar tackle because the tackler immediately pulled the runner to the ground. The penalty is 15 yards added on to the end of the run and an automatic first down.

there ya go hit, you don't have to worry about admitting you're wrong, we all know it already

[Hit Stick]

(08-29-2011 12:30 PM)papachaz Wrote:  one definition
"The horse-collar tackle is an American football maneuver in which a defender tackles another player by grabbing the back-inside of an opponent's shoulder pads. The technique is most closely associated with Pro Bowl safety Roy Williams. This kind of tackle was banned from the NFL during the 2005 offseason; the rule forbidding it is often referred to in the press as "The Roy Williams Rule."[1] The rule was expanded to include the back of the jersey collar in 2006. The rule, with modifications, was adopted in college and high school football in 2008 and 2009, respectively"

a link to a USA article about 'the Roy Williams Rule"

LINK

in one article i read, when a defender grabs the offensive person by the back of the collar/shoulder pads, yet the runner carries him a few yards down the field (IE:riding the runner) and they both fall to the ground, it is NOT a horse collar tackle, because to qualify as a horse collar, the defender uses the leverage he gets by grabbing the shoulder pads and pulling or yanking the runner to the ground immediately. here's that link examples of horse collar/non horse collar plays

and the text from that article "Where and when on the field is it legal and where and when is it illegal? Here are some situations to test your understanding of the new rule.

Play One — After the snap from his own 20-yard line, the running back takes a pitch from the quarterback and runs around the right end. He breaks into the open and runs to the 35-yard line where a linebacker grabs him by the collar of his shoulder pad and immediately jerks him to the ground. Is this a legal tackle?

Answer — No, this is a horse-collar tackle because the tackler immediately pulled the runner to the ground. The penalty is 15 yards added on to the end of the run and an automatic first down.

there ya go hit, you don't have to worry about admitting you're wrong, we all know it already

One last and final response to you, just because I want to make you look like a bigger ass than you do already.

#1 that "Roy Williams" rule has been modified slightly, and if you watch the play, that is exactly what I was talking about riding a player to the ground. You can't pull the player down from behind, which Bosher didn't do.

#2 Bosher didn't grab just the collar, so you're wrong...AGAIN.

#3 Also note the word is IMMEDIATELY this doesn't leave room for interpretation, this also excludes Bosher's Sideline tackle. You Lose.

Get used to it kiddo, you're looking about as democrat as they come right now.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2087453_horse-co...ackle.html

Umadbro?! yeah, Umad.

[papachaz]

(08-29-2011 01:49 PM)Hit Stick Wrote:  One last and final response to you, just because I want to make you look like a bigger ass than you do already.

#1 that "Roy Williams" rule has been modified slightly, and if you watch the play, that is exactly what I was talking about riding a player to the ground. You can't pull the player down from behind, which Bosher didn't do.

#2 Bosher didn't grab just the collar, so you're wrong...AGAIN.

Get used to it kiddo, you're looking about as democrat as they come right now.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2087453_horse-co...ackle.html

Umadbro?! yeah, Umad.

me mad? LMAO at what? i posted the first four things that come up when you google horse collar tackle, i'm not mad and i'm not wrong, and #2 EVERYONE else but you says he grabbed the collar, guess what, the REF said he grabbed the collar, LMAO you are the one wrong here, it doesn't matter what else gets grabbed, if he grabs inside the pads, which he did, he gets flagged. which he did and got flagged.

AND you said you were done communicating with me, and you were wrong there too obviously! get over yourself, another swift clone who not only thinks he cant be wrong, wont admit it even when it's put in black and white in front of you, just get over yourself, and i am definitely not mad, i'm laughing right out loud at your ignorance, and definitely not yabro

edit: i read the article, LMAO at him using a freaking Ehow article to argue his point, and NOWHERE in the steps of "how to do a horse collar tackle" does it say anything about riding an opponent, it clearly says grabbing the pads and pulling/yanking him to the ground, you just made yourself look like a bigger ass than you already had before. absolutely pathetic

[mcsupersport]

The horse-collar tackle is an American football maneuver in which a defender tackles another player by grabbing the back-inside of an opponent's shoulder pads. The technique is most closely associated with Pro Bowl safety Roy Williams. This kind of tackle was banned from the NFL during the 2005 offseason; the rule forbidding it is often referred to in the press as "The Roy Williams Rule."[1] The rule was expanded to include the back of the jersey collar in 2006. The rule, with modifications, was adopted in college and high school football in 2008 and 2009, respectively.
Contents
[hide]

1 History
2 Risks
3 Punishment
4 References

[edit] History

The horse-collar tackle rose to infamy during the 2004 NFL season, in which it was implicated for six major injuries, four of which were caused by Williams (including two in one game). The injuries that season included broken legs for Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Terrell Owens and quarterback Donovan McNabb, Baltimore Ravens running back Musa Smith, and Tennessee Titans wide out Tyrone Calico. On May 23, 2005, NFL owners voted 27-5 to ban the tackle, with the Dallas Cowboys, Detroit Lions, New England Patriots, New Orleans Saints, and San Francisco 49ers voting against.[1] The first year of the ban, only two penalties were called by referees for the horse-collar tackle. Owners voted 25-7 in 2006 to expand the rule to include tackles by the back of the jersey in addition to tackles by the shoulder pads.[2]
[edit] Risks

The horse-collar is particularly dangerous due to the awkward position of the player getting tackled, who will often fall backward in a twisting motion with one or both legs trapped under the weight of his body. This is exacerbated if the player's foot gets caught in the turf and by the additional weight of the defender. Potential injuries include sprains or tears to ligaments in the knees and ankles (including the ACL and MCL), and fractures of the tibia and fibula.[3]

The ban states that a horse-collar tackle is an open-field tackle in which a defender uses the shoulder pads or jersey to immediately bring a ball carrier down. The term "open field" means that horse-collar tackles committed near the line of scrimmage will be allowed; in addition, the stipulation of "immediately bringing the ball carrier down" means that, if a defender begins to bring a player down by the shoulder pads but lets go before the tackle is completed, he will not be penalized.[citation needed]
[edit] Punishment

In the NFL, the horse-collar tackle results in a 15-yard personal foul, and will often also result in a league-imposed fine on the player. Roy Williams was the first player suspended for repeated violations of the rule. The one-game suspension was handed down following a horse-collar tackle on Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb that occurred on December 16, 2007; it was Williams' third violation of the rule of the 2007 season.[4]

The tackle was made illegal in the CFL for the 2007 season. [5] The horse collar tackle was legal through the 2007-2008 season in college football but was banned by the NCAA after criticism from pundits and coaches for the 2008-2009 season as part of a package that adopted several NFL rules into the college game.[6]

The National Federation of State High School Associations added a penalty for horse-collar tackles for the 2009 season.[7]
[edit] References

This is Wikipedia entry on horsecollar.


and if I DO this right, this is the youtube video of highlights at the time of tackle......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtvKhXez2...page#t=15s




Now how can you NOT call that a horsecollar?

[papachaz]

(08-29-2011 05:19 PM)mcsupersport Wrote:  The horse-collar tackle is an American football maneuver in which a defender tackles another player by grabbing the back-inside of an opponent's shoulder pads. The technique is most closely associated with Pro Bowl safety Roy Williams. This kind of tackle was banned from the NFL during the 2005 offseason; the rule forbidding it is often referred to in the press as "The Roy Williams Rule."[1] The rule was expanded to include the back of the jersey collar in 2006. The rule, with modifications, was adopted in college and high school football in 2008 and 2009, respectively.
Contents
[hide]

1 History
2 Risks
3 Punishment
4 References

[edit] History

The horse-collar tackle rose to infamy during the 2004 NFL season, in which it was implicated for six major injuries, four of which were caused by Williams (including two in one game). The injuries that season included broken legs for Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Terrell Owens and quarterback Donovan McNabb, Baltimore Ravens running back Musa Smith, and Tennessee Titans wide out Tyrone Calico. On May 23, 2005, NFL owners voted 27-5 to ban the tackle, with the Dallas Cowboys, Detroit Lions, New England Patriots, New Orleans Saints, and San Francisco 49ers voting against.[1] The first year of the ban, only two penalties were called by referees for the horse-collar tackle. Owners voted 25-7 in 2006 to expand the rule to include tackles by the back of the jersey in addition to tackles by the shoulder pads.[2]
[edit] Risks

The horse-collar is particularly dangerous due to the awkward position of the player getting tackled, who will often fall backward in a twisting motion with one or both legs trapped under the weight of his body. This is exacerbated if the player's foot gets caught in the turf and by the additional weight of the defender. Potential injuries include sprains or tears to ligaments in the knees and ankles (including the ACL and MCL), and fractures of the tibia and fibula.[3]

The ban states that a horse-collar tackle is an open-field tackle in which a defender uses the shoulder pads or jersey to immediately bring a ball carrier down. The term "open field" means that horse-collar tackles committed near the line of scrimmage will be allowed; in addition, the stipulation of "immediately bringing the ball carrier down" means that, if a defender begins to bring a player down by the shoulder pads but lets go before the tackle is completed, he will not be penalized.[citation needed]
[edit] Punishment

In the NFL, the horse-collar tackle results in a 15-yard personal foul, and will often also result in a league-imposed fine on the player. Roy Williams was the first player suspended for repeated violations of the rule. The one-game suspension was handed down following a horse-collar tackle on Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb that occurred on December 16, 2007; it was Williams' third violation of the rule of the 2007 season.[4]

The tackle was made illegal in the CFL for the 2007 season. [5] The horse collar tackle was legal through the 2007-2008 season in college football but was banned by the NCAA after criticism from pundits and coaches for the 2008-2009 season as part of a package that adopted several NFL rules into the college game.[6]

The National Federation of State High School Associations added a penalty for horse-collar tackles for the 2009 season.[7]
[edit] References

This is Wikipedia entry on horsecollar.


and if I DO this right, this is the youtube video of highlights at the time of tackle......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtvKhXez2...page#t=15s




Now how can you NOT call that a horsecollar?

thanks for the back me up McSupes, but he's not going to admit he's wrong. it's spelled out plain and simple, and he even used a link to back up my points, and then callled me an ass??? LMAO and to think, the only reason i even got involved in this to begin with was because someone reported him for being a jackass, a definite breach of rule number three....

[Hit Stick]

He didn't come from behind, if he was behind the guy he would have never caught him. Not a horsecollar by definition, period, end of story.