Reality Check

[Swift Is a Die Hard]

(01-17-2011 12:16 AM)Beef Wrote:  http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_...rder/false

In case you didn't know, our O-line gave up the 3rd fewest sacks in the entire league while also having the 12th best team rushing & 3rd overall rushing RB, and was by far the least penalized O-line in the league.

When you're only two-dimensional (dink-n-dunk passing + vanilla power running), the opposing defense has an easy job of scheming against you. There is absolutely ZERO question that we were the most blitzed against offense by a ridiculous margin. Stacking 7-8 in the box & rushing 6-7 was easily 70% of the play calls against us. And yet, our O-line only allowed 23 sacks the entire regular season, which again is 3rd fewest in the league.

If we were more than just two-dimensional & had more than just ONE player who was a YAC & deep threat, we wouldn't have seen half as many of those blitzes & stacking of the box. And as a result, Ryan would have had significantly more time much more often to sit in the pocket & wait for the down-field routes to finish. This didn't happen though because we don't have the personel for it.

Our O-line played ridiculously well considering that's the case.

solid post ..

Oline could use a upgrade just at C but everywhere else checks out . Oline isnt the main issue in some of our offensive woes . Lack of play makers/Mularkey/Ryan all take equal blame all around

[Beef]

(01-16-2011 11:51 PM)Swift Is a Die Hard Wrote:  The major beef I have with Mularkey is his wr route design ..Everything is to sidelines either outs deep cuts ..Doesnt it feel when we utilize the middle of the field . Now that could be cause of the major factors or like the problems you brought up not the big play wr threats to attack down field or a TE to stretch. Its funny how every team around the league can run successful screens to either wr or rb and we can not .
Also in his 3 wr sets he sends a clear out route ..(Which is White running a go or clear out so can occupy S ) Tony G curl stop route and Jenkins slant ..so Jenkins will me drape by corner cause he is a possession wr ..Ryan turns to Tony G on curl or check down to Snelling

I would like to bring in a guy like Malcom Floyd ...He is big /lanky and a down field threat . but he has to be used right or there really isnt a point . We need new route patterns and we need to take shots down field

I completely agree. But I think he does have those other plays in his book, just the same problem keeps them from being called... we don't have the receivers & RB to run them. We've tried & they rarely if ever worked, so I think he just stayed away from them & kept going with what's reliable.

After looking at GB, NO, & NE more than enough this & recent seasons, I firmly believe we're short "2" big-play threat receivers. I didn't realize this at the beginning of this season because I thought HD & Norwood were going to make us 4-dimensional, but that obviously didn't happen. And after seeing how slow TG is & the fact we have nobody other than Roddy that's capable of YAC, I think we need 2 receivers & a speed-back to get us to that level.

[cnasty]

I'm just curious as to how many screen passes we threw all year??? Anybody? Anybody?

[Beef]

(01-17-2011 12:34 AM)cnasty Wrote:  I'm just curious as to how many screen passes we threw all year??? Anybody? Anybody?

I honestly would guess 15 or even slightly less all season, which is freaking ridiculous. Turner caught 12 passes & Snelling 44. But the vast majority of those to each of them were designed dump passes or 5 receiver sets with them in the slot actually running a route.

SD & NO run about 5-7 screens on average PER GAME.

[ViperXX79]

(01-17-2011 12:32 AM)Beef Wrote:  I completely agree. But I think he does have those other plays in his book, just the same problem keeps them from being called... we don't have the receivers & RB to run them. We've tried & they rarely if ever worked, so I think he just stayed away from them & kept going with what's reliable.

After looking at GB, NO, & NE more than enough this & recent seasons, I firmly believe we're short "2" big-play threat receivers. I didn't realize this at the beginning of this season because I thought HD & Norwood were going to make us 4-dimensional, but that obviously didn't happen. And after seeing how slow TG is & the fact we have nobody other than Roddy that's capable of YAC, I think we need 2 receivers & a speed-back to get us to that level.

HD was coming off the ACL tear though. It takes two years to get that explosive first step back.

[Jayhawk-Falcon2012]

Breaking it down, honestly bringing TG in for me didn't stunt anything except prove that Jenks/HD were not stepping up. when you have a guy like Gonzo playing you know you've got a reliable target. Jenks sure makes some clutch catches, but he's not consistent in his position. HD is almost NEVER making the plays. There was that game where Ryan threw to him pretty heavily and not once do i recall Douglas capitalize on the catches.

When Roddy and TG are the only "reliable" weapons for Ryan yeah you're gonna target them because you'd rather throw to a reliable target then one thats only occasional and one that doesn't even want the ball. May sound harsh to Douglas but its what he's shown me and I'll give him a tiny bit of slack coming off that injury, but you gotta step up if you wanna win. He simply didn't do that.

If anything 2008 was the most magical year for this franchise, but you also have to remember we didn't have so many key injuries to the Offensive weapons. Norwood played in '08 and was for me a reason why our offense flourished so much more, because when he was in he could beat you running East-West or be thrown to and make a play too, aka was the Homerun bat. Turner just cannot do that, and the analyst made a good point that turner had the Fewest catches for yards (or something like that) for a player who's had so much time on the field. Honestly at this point I'd trade turner in for a more versatile player. Maybe a comparable player like Ray Rice over in baltimore, combo of turner's running and scat back ability like norwood, but not as fast.

This offseason i'd like to hear talks of maybe bundling Snelling/Norwood for a scat back kind of player. Maybe one who's healthy and isn't so to get injured. I'd honestly like to pick up a steve slaton if houston wants Foster to be the guy, but thats the kind of guy i'd like to put with turner. Just a thought.

critiques? opposing thoughts?

[juraitwaluzka]

It seems like we didn't have as many explosive plays as in 2008, fortunately we were able to have lots of long drives, but I think those are hard to sustain, and without the explosiveness the offense can drop off a cliff rather steeply (really was true in all 4 losses this year).

[Beef]

(01-17-2011 12:41 AM)ViperXX79 Wrote:  HD was coming off the ACL tear though. It takes two years to get that explosive first step back.

I know. And I wanna believe more than anything he'll make an impact in the future. But I'm afraid he realizes he's still 6' 180lb twig running routes in the middle taking hits from guys with 50+ lbs on him.

He doesn't have the same build as a Welker or Harvin or Moore. So he just seems fragile in the slot & too small for WR to me at this moment. But I hope I'm wrong. I think Meier would have taken over the slot this year if he didn't blow out his knee because he's got the attributes for it.

[Beef]

(01-17-2011 12:43 AM)Jayhawk-Falcon2012 Wrote:  Breaking it down, honestly bringing TG in for me didn't stunt anything except prove that Jenks/HD were not stepping up. when you have a guy like Gonzo playing you know you've got a reliable target. Jenks sure makes some clutch catches, but he's not consistent in his position. HD is almost NEVER making the plays. There was that game where Ryan threw to him pretty heavily and not once do i recall Douglas capitalize on the catches.

When Roddy and TG are the only "reliable" weapons for Ryan yeah you're gonna target them because you'd rather throw to a reliable target then one thats only occasional and one that doesn't even want the ball. May sound harsh to Douglas but its what he's shown me and I'll give him a tiny bit of slack coming off that injury, but you gotta step up if you wanna win. He simply didn't do that.

If anything 2008 was the most magical year for this franchise, but you also have to remember we didn't have so many key injuries to the Offensive weapons. Norwood played in '08 and was for me a reason why our offense flourished so much more, because when he was in he could beat you running East-West or be thrown to and make a play too, aka was the Homerun bat. Turner just cannot do that, and the analyst made a good point that turner had the Fewest catches for yards (or something like that) for a player who's had so much time on the field. Honestly at this point I'd trade turner in for a more versatile player. Maybe a comparable player like Ray Rice over in baltimore, combo of turner's running and scat back ability like norwood, but not as fast.

This offseason i'd like to hear talks of maybe bundling Snelling/Norwood for a scat back kind of player. Maybe one who's healthy and isn't so to get injured. I'd honestly like to pick up a steve slaton if houston wants Foster to be the guy, but thats the kind of guy i'd like to put with turner. Just a thought.

critiques? opposing thoughts?

I think Turner needs to stay. If we had the receiving weapons to spread out opposing defenses & get significantly fewer defenders blitzing & stacking the box, Turner would be the ultimate play-action & 3rd down 5-6 YPC back. You give him the ball only 12-15x a game instead of 25-30x, he's running with a ton more energy & effort too. And put him out there & run some play-action, holy shit would the opposing defense have problems guessing pass or run. And toss a scat-back who can YAC in there on those play-action plays running screens & dump-passes with a spread out secondary chasing 3 big fast scary receivers around, & now we're talking about a 4-dimensional ultra-dynamic top 5 offense.

[Jayhawk-Falcon2012]

(01-17-2011 01:03 AM)Beef Wrote:  I think Turner needs to stay. If we had the receiving weapons to spread out opposing defenses & get significantly fewer defenders blitzing & stacking the box, Turner would be the ultimate play-action & 3rd down 5-6 YPC back. You give him the ball only 12-15x a game instead of 25-30x, he's running with a ton more energy & effort too. And put him out there & run some play-action, holy shit would the opposing defense have problems guessing pass or run. And toss a scat-back who can YAC in there on those play-action plays running screens & dump-passes with a spread out secondary chasing 3 big fast scary receivers around, & now we're talking about a 4-dimensional ultra-dynamic top 5 offense.

But i guess the problem with that concept of running turner only 12-15 is he's not going to be "effective". I think what i'm getting at is turner only is able to get 100+ yard games because as it stands he's not exploding out of the trenches, and gets stopped pretty much on first contact. Plus the philosophy that everyones been pointing at from MM, forces us to be more time managed, so if we do go into a different philosophy of only 12-15 turner seems to be the type of player to only get maybe...50+ yards a game??? If we're going to transfer his ypc over.

I feel if we're going to go more explosive then we need a faster back too, don't you think? I appreciate everything turner has done for this franchise and team, but if we go in a different philosophy were Turner isn't even really used for what he's built for why keep him on the roster? I'm sure we could use him like TJ Duck used to be for us, short yardage/goal line runs, but thats an option i could only think of. I want us to go into a slash and gash type offense where we beat you with quickness and speed instead of what we've got now, which is bruise and time managed.