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TonyGraziani · 09-26-2010, 05:25 AM

(09-25-2010 07:59 PM)AtlantaFalconPokerPro Wrote: Really sucks that people couldn't discuss this civilly. I think whoever it was that resorted to name calling read the 1st post and responded without reading the whole thread first (hence why it looks like he ignored your warning).

I also think some people are missing the point of the OP.

That being said... I sometimes leave my house around 3:30 am for work, and on certain roads have to literally drive 10-15 miles an hour with my bright lights on to avoid hitting a deer. And this is within 15 miles of downtown Atlanta.

Yeah man, idk what I can do to make myself anymore clear smh. Some people are too set in their ways to even consider any other points. And I'm just as much against Vicks actions as anyone. I was discussing this thread with my uncle and the way he looked at it made my point sound clearer.

Parent 1- physically abuses their kids, punching them in the face. Gets caught and goes to jail, in front of dozens of protesters.

Parent 2- verbally abuses their kids, calling them every name under the sun. Doesn't go to jail or get in trouble because the laws is not as strong against it.

Parent 3- forces their kids into beauty pageants/school sports to get their own glory. Are generally looked at as good parents because people assume that the kids like doing this stuff.

All 3 of these behaviors are wrong, but parent 1 is the easiest to attack.

People are gonna get mad at what they wanna get mad at. Pointing out other things that they should be just as mad at won't do any good. They have this mob mentality, and they want the king's head. If you're in the middle of that mob and start talking about the crimes of the emperor, you will be ignored and likely stampeded over. I should have known this before I started this thread.

And what side of town you stay on? I'm on the southside, and I hit a deer before. Ripped up the bumper somthin terrible. I've also hit a stray dog. Neither time have I thought that a hunter needs to start killing them off so I wouldn't have this problem.... Jus sayin....

And Ziggy, your sister ok?

~~zigg zagg~~ · 09-26-2010, 08:20 AM

yes shes fine. the only injuries she sustained were from the seat belt and air bag. how ironic huh? lol

JDaveG · 09-26-2010, 09:22 AM

(09-24-2010 07:48 PM)TonyGraziani Wrote: I feel like an ass for starting this, but let me make it clear how I feel and what I wanted people to think about.

MICHAEL VICK WAS WRONG FOR FIGHTING DOGS. THIS IS AS TRUE AS THE SKY IS BLUE. BUT HE IS NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO IS NOT DOING RIGHT BY ANIMALS. THIS THREAD WAS NOT INTENDED TO MAKE MIKE VICK APPEAR RIGHT. THE POINT WAS TO SHOW HE IS NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO IS WRONG.

That's all.

Can you see and understand the difference between humane killing and inhumane killing of animals?

Do you equate torturing dogs, killing by electrocution, hanging, drowning, etc. because that animal is unfit to make the killer any money to someone quickly and humanely killing an animal that will be used for food in order to control the population of that animal to prevent a truly inhumane death (starving)?

We kill criminals in this country by lethal injection. Can you see the difference between that and burying them alive, or killing them on the rack, or cutting their throats?

TonyGraziani · 09-26-2010, 11:46 AM

(09-26-2010 09:22 AM)JDaveG Wrote: Can you see and understand the difference between humane killing and inhumane killing of animals?

Do you equate torturing dogs, killing by electrocution, hanging, drowning, etc. because that animal is unfit to make the killer any money to someone quickly and humanely killing an animal that will be used for food in order to control the population of that animal to prevent a truly inhumane death (starving)?

We kill criminals in this country by lethal injection. Can you see the difference between that and burying them alive, or killing them on the rack, or cutting their throats?

Yes, there is a difference. Killing for food is ok, I'm not a vegan hippie or anything. I just don't believe it to be "humane" to shoot a deer for any reason besides to cook up some venison burgers. Especially when it isn't some type of somber occasion, as the hunter humbly carries out their duty to prevent the starvation of these poor little deer and pray over its corpse before giving it a respectful burial.... No, its called a "sport" for a reason. Its recreation. Its "fun".
j
I'm no one to condemn anyone. If you or anyone else is a "game" hunter, that's your business. I am sure there is something someone somewhere could find fault with that I do. I just believe killing animals for reasons besides food or reactive self-defense(I.e. Being attacked) is wrong and unnecessary. Jmho.

Thanks for having a civil conversation, this is what I wanted. *e-pound*

AtlantaFalconPokerPro · 09-26-2010, 12:35 PM

(09-25-2010 08:08 PM)zigg zagg Wrote: my sister just annihalated a cadillac with 12 point buck 2 days ago in southwest ohio. ohio state highway patrolmen said it was the biggest deer theyd ever seen hit on the highway and its pretty common around here.

Yeah, that sucks. I'm not a hunter by any means, but I see it as necessary.

Here is part of an an interesting article about killing deer.

Because of the large amount of damage that excess deer do to agriculture and horticulture, in addition to the property damage and loss of life from automobile-deer collisions, humans have an unavoidable responsibility to exercise appropriate deer management options to control the deer population to be an appropriate size.

JDaveG · (This post was last modified: 09-26-2010 12:50 PM by JDaveG.)

(09-26-2010 11:46 AM)TonyGraziani Wrote: Yes, there is a difference. Killing for food is ok, I'm not a vegan hippie or anything. I just don't believe it to be "humane" to shoot a deer for any reason besides to cook up some venison burgers. Especially when it isn't some type of somber occasion, as the hunter humbly carries out their duty to prevent the starvation of these poor little deer and pray over its corpse before giving it a respectful burial.... No, its called a "sport" for a reason. Its recreation. Its "fun".
j
I'm no one to condemn anyone. If you or anyone else is a "game" hunter, that's your business. I am sure there is something someone somewhere could find fault with that I do. I just believe killing animals for reasons besides food or reactive self-defense(I.e. Being attacked) is wrong and unnecessary. Jmho.

Thanks for having a civil conversation, this is what I wanted. *e-pound*

For the record, I am not a hunter. I have "hunted," but I have never seen nor killed a deer (my "fun" was freezing my balls off in a deer stand in pouring rain and worrying my beautiful .300 magnum was going to irreparably rust before I could get it cleaned, dried and oiled, LOL). Those I do know who regularly hunt eat what they kill. They are also VERY cognizant to not cripple a deer or to shoot an animal in an immoral fashion (i.e., killing a doe who is with her fawns, etc.). Do some of them mount the heads of deer they kill? Sure. But they also eat the meat from the kill. And, for the record, naturally grass fed venison is quite a bit healthier than processed beef, so there is another point in the hunter's favor.

I just wanted to make sure you could see a distinction between the manner and purpose of the killing. Mike Vick tortured dogs by making them fight each other for sport. Then if they did not perform, he killed them in horribly inhumane ways. Comparing that to sport hunting while acknowledging the distinction is one thing. My point was to ensure that there isn't some false equation of the two practices on a moral scale.

TonyGraziani · 09-26-2010, 01:32 PM

(09-26-2010 12:49 PM)JDaveG Wrote: For the record, I am not a hunter. I have "hunted," but I have never seen nor killed a deer (my "fun" was freezing my balls off in a deer stand in pouring rain and worrying my beautiful .300 magnum was going to irreparably rust before I could get it cleaned, dried and oiled, LOL). Those I do know who regularly hunt eat what they kill. They are also VERY cognizant to not cripple a deer or to shoot an animal in an immoral fashion (i.e., killing a doe who is with her fawns, etc.). Do some of them mount the heads of deer they kill? Sure. But they also eat the meat from the kill. And, for the record, naturally grass fed venison is quite a bit healthier than processed beef, so there is another point in the hunter's favor.

I just wanted to make sure you could see a distinction between the manner and purpose of the killing. Mike Vick tortured dogs by making them fight each other for sport. Then if they did not perform, he killed them in horribly inhumane ways. Comparing that to sport hunting while acknowledging the distinction is one thing. My point was to ensure that there isn't some false equation of the two practices on a moral scale.

Yeah, I could go for a venison burger right now haha. I see the differences. I still think that killing and NOT EATING is wrong, but it is the far lesser of the two evils.

~~zigg zagg~~ · 09-26-2010, 04:54 PM

(09-26-2010 12:35 PM)AtlantaFalconPokerPro Wrote: Yeah, that sucks. I'm not a hunter by any means, but I see it as necessary.

Here is part of an an interesting article about killing deer.

Because of the large amount of damage that excess deer do to agriculture and horticulture, in addition to the property damage and loss of life from automobile-deer collisions, humans have an unavoidable responsibility to exercise appropriate deer management options to control the deer population to be an appropriate size.

thats nice and all but, SHOW ME A HUNTER WHO DOESNT DO IT FOR THE THRILL OF THE HUNT AND KILL. lets get real, nobody is doing it to control population. nice cover story though, maybe my kindergartener will believe it.

Bieber Fever · (This post was last modified: 09-26-2010 06:24 PM by Bieber Fever.)

(09-26-2010 04:54 PM)zigg zagg Wrote: thats nice and all but, SHOW ME A HUNTER WHO DOESNT DO IT FOR THE THRILL OF THE HUNT AND KILL. lets get real, nobody is doing it to control population. nice cover story though, maybe my kindergartener will believe it.

I absolutely hate hunting but I usually kill one deer a year because fried back strap>>>>>

You can't compare what Vick did to hunters though, you have to compare him to people that abuse their children

~~zigg zagg~~ · 09-26-2010, 06:56 PM

im not against hunting at all. i just think its hypocritical to hunt for the primary purpose of satisfying an urge to win a game of "loser dies" when the animal really has no chance of winning, and then getting high and mighty about other forms of animal abuse.