ProFootballFocus - Going Deep

[illmusic]

(05-12-2011 01:47 PM)papachaz Wrote:  good point, and well taken. but look at the difference in what they do in their careers. Mayok actually spends hours upon hours of film study on players, while i can't verify it, you'll never convince me dilfer has the mental capacity to do the kind of studying that Mayok does, much less is willing to actually do anywhere close to that kind of study.

i've followed this thread closely, i don't recall anyone suggesting that MR doesn't need to work on his deep ball based on reading the article and the stats it listed. I'd love to see us work on it all the way around and have it (the deep ball) become a serious weapon in our arsenal. it clearly hasn't been...and we can blame it as much on our lack of receivers as we can Matt's ability to throw it. does he need to improve? sure, and i bet if you ask him if he thinks so, he'd say 'absolutely' he likes that word a lot.

no doubt we have a QB who's smart, athletic and has some skills. he also has the capacity within himself to work hard because he's one of those rare pro's who don't think he's 'all that' and that he needs to improve, and WANTS to improve

I agree with everything, but when someone criticized Matt's deep game people were talking like it was sacrilege.

[papachaz]

(05-12-2011 04:08 PM)illmusic Wrote:  I agree with everything, but when someone criticized Matt's deep game people were talking like it was sacrilege.

is it that really or is it just the same few people who constantly criticize Matts deep game with the same arguement over and over, even when there is video and statistical evidence that it's not as horrible as they try to make out?

i love to see a good debate between people who use stats and plays to back up their opinion, this board welcomes and even wants all the diverse opinons, and there are a few threads that have been opened for the specific purpose of getting those who are knowledgable to share what they know with the rest.

i do agree that some do go off the deep side over someone's opinion on the internet though. because we can talk about this or that, and it will have no bearing at all on what the team actually does

[Beef]

(05-12-2011 04:03 PM)illmusic Wrote:  That's the thing, no one said noodle arm...Jedi said he had one of the worst deep balls because he puts too much air underneath it. No one disputes he can get it downfield, accuracy is a problem with his deep game at this stage in his career...I wouldn't say one of the worse, but he was 20th in a sample size of 31. I can show a video where he underthrew Harry, that doesn't mean it's fact he doesn't have a strong arm, so looking at one vid doesn't dispute dude needs work on his deep ball.

Do you not understand the laws of physics?

If I run a 4.30 40-yard dash, then the next day run a 4.80 40-yard dash, you can't say I'm slow. I hit a 4.30 on the clock and the bar/limit is now SET. It happened, you can't ignore it like it didn't happen just to suit your argument.

There is video proof of Ryan throwing the ball on a rope for 50 yards (and with incredible accuracy). You can't take that back. You can't say he can't do it. You can't say he puts too much air under it. You can't say he has a weak arm because the irrefutable proof confirms he does not.

Accuracy is one thing and his isn't bad at all. Timing is one thing and this is probably the biggest thing he needs to work on. But arm strength and capability at this point cannot be refuted, PERIOD. Once he's done it, it proves he can do it.

[illmusic]

Alright, if that's what you feel then I can't argue...I've seen an offensive tackle for the Patriots run a kickoff return for a TD, I doubt Belichick is contemplating putting him on kick return duties though. I'm not saying Matt Ryan doesn't have the capability to get it done, simply that he needs to work on it to get better at it, because at this point in his career he isn't as efficient as he could be, and probably as he wants to be. If you want to argue that's timing, that's fair. But if I throw the ball to a spot the receiver isn't at, I can scream timing, most will say accuracy.

[illmusic]

(05-12-2011 04:14 PM)papachaz Wrote:  is it that really or is it just the same few people who constantly criticize Matts deep game with the same arguement over and over, even when there is video and statistical evidence that it's not as horrible as they try to make out?

i love to see a good debate between people who use stats and plays to back up their opinion, this board welcomes and even wants all the diverse opinons, and there are a few threads that have been opened for the specific purpose of getting those who are knowledgable to share what they know with the rest.

i do agree that some do go off the deep side over someone's opinion on the internet though. because we can talk about this or that, and it will have no bearing at all on what the team actually does

I know of swift, but I always thought Jedi just trips on injuries during the season, if that was him inciting an argument then my bad. But even on a statistical level, his accuracy on the deep ball wasn't that good. 20th in a pool of 31 is a pretty good stat to back the claim against his deep ball. That's the main reason I was so taken aback by the whiplash that comment caused, it seemed as if people forgot that the stat line had him low, but to criticize that aspect is still trolling...I'm honestly not trying to do that, I like dudes game, and I think with some tweaks to the environment around him, he could jump 10 spots on the list...but I also feel, with the environment he had last year, he could've jumped 5 spots based on his own talents, y'know?

[illmusic]

I do like the fact that even when he missed on receivers, he was putting the ball where only his receiver could make the play, as evidenced by his low INT percentage on deep balls.

[Beef]

Being 20 of 31 is so incredibly subjective though that you can't pin that on his ability to actually do it (throw deep with accuracy and timing).

Our O-Line is partly to blame.
Our lack of receivers capable of spreading the field is partly to blame.
Our lack of a change-of-pace RB to keep defenses guessing is partly to blame.
Opposing defenses stacking the box & blitzing over 50% of plays is partly to blame.
Our run-first philosphy is partly to blame.
Our OC's insistance on being vanilla and 2-dimensional (mostly due to lack of personnel) is partly to blame.

Those things contribute a crap ton more to Ryan's lack of deep passes than him not having the arm, accuracy, or timing to do it. Again, there's video proof he can do it. So now that we've given him the personnel, hopefully MM calls the plays or gives Ryan the ability to call his own plays and we see it actually happen. And hopefully our O-Line does their job and helps enable it too.

The move to get Julio and Rodgers changes everything.

[illmusic]

I said that an improvement to his environment would probably boost him 10 spots on the list, but I believe an increase on his own abilities could bump him up 5 spots

[Beef]

(05-12-2011 05:45 PM)illmusic Wrote:  I said that an improvement to his environment would probably boost him 10 spots on the list, but I believe an increase on his own abilities could bump him up 5 spots

I know, you're not the only one who thinks he's got a problem with throwing the ball deep.

I don't think it's a problem. All those factors I just mentioned are the problem. He's getting blamed for it all by some people and that's not right. He has mild timing issues but is capable of throwing deep with accuracy.

Dude has the highest passer rating while under pressure than any other QB in the league. And I've seen him thread balls through a damn needle. Hell, Roddy is double-teamed like a mofo yet still caught over 110 passes. That's not all on Roddy. Matty has something to do with that.

[illmusic]

Oh yeah, that stat is a real eye opener and I believe getting some more weapons to loosen up the D will help push him to the next level. And with a back like Quizz that blitz rating will probably only get better. If HD can make a Roddy like jump in his 3rd year(playing) and Julio works out, i can see Ryan in the top 5 of this list, easy.