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AsylumGuido · 01-29-2013, 01:10 AM

(01-28-2013 09:30 PM)Drathdon Wrote: Tell that to all the people he defrauded, to USC and their fans, and to the NFL. He paid a restitution of $160,000 for his $350,000 defrauding of the NFL BEFORE he came to NO with Bush... I'm sure "harmless" is not what the NFL calls Michael Ornstein.

Or, as Payton called him, "point man for the Saints during their trip to Miami for the Super Bowl, arranging everything from daily gifts for players and their wives to strategically placed Saints billboards throughout the city." Calling him a "hanger on guy" is really pretending not to notice the elephant in the room that your team was happy to buy peanuts for.

Remind me of how the salary cap works, and how gifts outside of it work again? No wonder Loomis can be a genius with the cap... just have a criminal provide gifts to wives and players (or like he did for Bush under the table) to keep that money off the books! Problem solved! Too bad he's not there any more, and Brees had to get actual money.

Show's how little you actually know. There was NO money from the outside. Gifts to the families of players are status quo, but you probably didn't know that. Every Super Bowl family is swamped with gifts from advertisers. Each team is also allowed to give gifts to the families of players and coaches. Ornstein simply made sure that the Colts wives heard how much better the Saints' wives came out on the free gift side.

You are making much ado of nothing. If your team ever made it to another Super Bowl they would do the same.

AsylumGuido · 01-29-2013, 01:19 AM

(01-28-2013 09:30 PM)Drathdon Wrote: Tell that to all the people he defrauded, to USC and their fans, and to the NFL. He paid a restitution of $160,000 for his $350,000 defrauding of the NFL BEFORE he came to NO with Bush... I'm sure "harmless" is not what the NFL calls Michael Ornstein.

Or, as Payton called him, "point man for the Saints during their trip to Miami for the Super Bowl, arranging everything from daily gifts for players and their wives to strategically placed Saints billboards throughout the city." Calling him a "hanger on guy" is really pretending not to notice the elephant in the room that your team was happy to buy peanuts for.

Remind me of how the salary cap works, and how gifts outside of it work again? No wonder Loomis can be a genius with the cap... just have a criminal provide gifts to wives and players (or like he did for Bush under the table) to keep that money off the books! Problem solved! Too bad he's not there any more, and Brees had to get actual money.

By the way, Ornstein was a league employee and was convicted of defrauding in 1995 when Reggie Bush was ten years old. Get your timeline right. You spout so much crap without any clue.

Drathdon · 01-29-2013, 01:25 AM

First, you are overstating things when you say gifts can be given. There are rules. You are wrong there.

Second, do you really think the guy who took down USC and Bush followed those rules? Or that Payton didn't know asking the guy charged with breaking rules on illegal compensation to handle giving gifts to "make the other wives jealous" would be putting a fox in the hen house?

There is corruption all over your team, and no amount of lies of misdirection will ever hide that taint... but feel free to continue to ignore it and claim all is well. I respect you enough to think you would admit there was something rotten in Denmark, and just say it is over now, and the Saint's have moved on. However, your current tactic of pretending none of it was sour makes me wonder if I'm not giving you too much credit.

Drathdon · (This post was last modified: 01-29-2013 01:32 AM by Drathdon.)

(01-29-2013 01:19 AM)AsylumGuido Wrote: By the way, Ornstein was a league employee and was convicted of defrauding in 1995 when Reggie Bush was ten years old. Get your timeline right. You spout so much crap without any clue.

I clearly said BEFORE he came to NO with Bush. Exactly where is my timeline incorrect?

(01-28-2013 09:30 PM)Drathdon Wrote: He paid a restitution of $160,000 for his $350,000 defrauding of the NFL BEFORE he came to NO with Bush... I'm sure "harmless" is not what the NFL calls Michael Ornstein.

Senselessly accusing me of spouting crap without answering my point is deflection. That only works when your opponent can be driven by emotion. I stand by the facts of what I've said, and leave emotion out of it. You should do the same. The perspective you would gain would help you see everything your fandom is ignoring.

AsylumGuido · 01-29-2013, 01:39 AM

(01-29-2013 01:30 AM)Drathdon Wrote: I clearly said BEFORE he came to NO with Bush. Exactly where is my timeline incorrect?

Senselessly accusing me of spouting crap without answering my point is deflection. That only works when your opponent can be driven by emotion. I stand by the facts of what I've said, and leave emotion out of it. You should do the same. The perspective you would gain would help you see everything your fandom is ignoring.

What is your problem? Maybe Phocis is right. Why are you so obsessed with this? You have constantly tried to make this some sort of horrendous affair when any logical person knows better. Let it go. I repeat, what is your problem?

AsylumGuido · 01-29-2013, 01:40 AM

(01-29-2013 01:25 AM)Drathdon Wrote: First, you are overstating things when you say gifts can be given. There are rules. You are wrong there.

Second, do you really think the guy who took down USC and Bush followed those rules? Or that Payton didn't know asking the guy charged with breaking rules on illegal compensation to handle giving gifts to "make the other wives jealous" would be putting a fox in the hen house?

There is corruption all over your team, and no amount of lies of misdirection will ever hide that taint... but feel free to continue to ignore it and claim all is well. I respect you enough to think you would admit there was something rotten in Denmark, and just say it is over now, and the Saint's have moved on. However, your current tactic of pretending none of it was sour makes me wonder if I'm not giving you too much credit.

Post those rules here then.

Drathdon · 01-29-2013, 02:02 AM

I make replies to your posts. You tell me I, "spout so much crap without any clue."

I show you where you are absolutely wrong. You ask me, "what is your problem?" and to, "Let it go."

So let me be Frank. I ask for threads you make to stay open because you entertain me. Your fiction is amusing.

You started this discussion, so if you DARE to say I should let it go, I will remind you that this is MY HOUSE and you keep shitting in my yard. Want us to let is go? Then stop posting your fiction that entertains me.

You gloss over facts, borderline lie (that you make yourself believe your fiction does not change what they are), and ignore EVERY relevant fact posted against you.

You have YET to address any of the many accurate points I have made. In NO WAY have you tried to engage my argument, or support your claims I dispute. When backed into addressing them, you can only ask me to, "let it go?"

Either address my points, or quit posting your fiction here. Don't tell me to what to choose to talk about, even if it is to reply to your fiction, which entertains me.

Drathdon · 01-29-2013, 02:24 AM

(01-29-2013 01:40 AM)AsylumGuido Wrote: Post those rules here then.

*Sigh*
You tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, and then expect me to educate you against the incorrect information you are spreading as fact? Ok.

When you refer to "gifts," the incentives listed in the CBA are what players & teams are limited to as far as incentives go. There are two types of compensation, beyond salary, allowed to players - Performance and Team. Since these are not performance based (remember the Bountygate, and how that term came into play there?) these must come from the team incentives, where the amount set aside in the pot for each incentive is split evenly among all players on the team.

The rules around how team incentive money is calculated into the salary cap is long-winded and written in legalese so I will refer you to the NFL CBA PDF if you wish to read more about it.

Feel free to ignore all these facts, and just continue to wrongly state that teams can just give players gifts above what another team gives just because they want to, though. I'm sure the realization that Payton placed the man found guilty of illegal compensation of players in charge of making other wives jealous rings no alarms for you.

Drathdon · 01-29-2013, 02:31 AM

(01-28-2013 10:04 PM)phocis850 Wrote: So this thread with a great idea turns into the coaching and bounty thread in one?

Yeah, it's why I wanted that thread not to be closed (giving a place to "hide" this), and why I made this thread (or the original post in it). Sure, the rival discussions (if you can call them that) and any "troll" topics are useless calories, but even a healthy diet needs those once in a while.

I think the "Controversial Topics" section is the best of both worlds.

I made this thread after typing a LONG reply to Swift in the Rules thread, only to find the thread closed after all my work composing a post. I HATE when that happens! (And it wasn't the first time, lol) Tongue

Aftermath · 01-29-2013, 02:42 AM

only real way to solve this argument is a fight to the death......using only your penis (or in Guido's case that big ugly vagina they got stashed in Nawlins)