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pauliwood · 09-25-2012, 12:51 PM

(09-25-2012 12:32 PM)papachaz Wrote: aren't the guys in the booth still NFL administrative employees?

this pic about sums it up though.....

You are right, they are.

ATLBound · 09-25-2012, 01:10 PM

The catch is not complete until the players hit the ground. So when Jennings jumped in the air and had two hands on the ball and Tate had one it doesnt matter.

When they both fell to the ground...both Tate and Jennings had two hands on the ball firmly. This is what makes it a simo catch. The catch rules still apply and its not a catch on the jump. Its a catch on the fall.

juraitwaluzka · 09-25-2012, 01:12 PM

(09-25-2012 11:03 AM)papachaz Wrote: I've also seen it said that the replay official can NOT determine possession??? that's BS plain and simple, calls get challenged all the time for possession don't they?

Last night's call, by rule could not be overturned by replay. That is the problem. Sure the ref made the wrong call in real time but it was a tough call to make. This is exactly what replay should be used for. The outrage should be directed at the rule because ultimately it is what decided the outcome. Unfortunately the replacements will be the scapegoats, we will get the old incompetent refs back and in the end nothing much will change. The final play last night could have easily happened with the normal refs.

**papachaz** · 09-25-2012, 01:17 PM

just saw it scroll across the bottom of the screen on ESPN that the official comment by the NFL is they agree with not overturning the simultaneous catch, BUT they acknowledge the missed offensive PI was missed and would have negated the play

**papachaz** · 09-25-2012, 01:20 PM

(09-25-2012 01:10 PM)ATLBound Wrote: The catch is not complete until the players hit the ground. So when Jennings jumped in the air and had two hands on the ball and Tate had one it doesnt matter.

When they both fell to the ground...both Tate and Jennings had two hands on the ball firmly. This is what makes it a simo catch. The catch rules still apply and its not a catch on the jump. Its a catch on the fall.

i tend to agree with this explanation, I think I put something similar in a post. it's not possession unless he comes down with both feet in bounds, or lands on his back and maintains control throughout the catch. My opinion is that between the time jennings two feet both got to the ground, tate managed to get enough control on the ball to merit calling it simultaneous

ATLBound · 09-25-2012, 01:30 PM

Exactly what happens in the air doesn't matter. When they landed both had possession.

All this BS about who has it closer to the chest mean nothing bc that could be something as simple as the defender landing on top of the offensive player.

It's a simo catch bc as they landed they both had 2 hands on the ball. It wasn't readjusted on the ground.

I think people are too focused on what happened during the jump.

Reminds me of the Replacements tho.

"Clifford Franklin is like the common cold. Clifford Franklin is the only one catching it. Clifford Franklin is the only one coming down with it."

Beef · 09-25-2012, 01:56 PM

I don't agree, I guess. I saw Tate re-adjusting his right hand to try to get a better grip on the ball after they were already on the ground.

How anyone can say that Jenning didn't have 10x more control than Tate is ridiculous. Jennings' shoulder and back are on top of Tate, smashing his helmet into his face and he's got the ball cradled in his bicep, forearm, and both hands pulled into his chest. The ball would have actually been on the center of his chest if not for Tate's left hand simply being stuck between them.

Again, I'm not a Packers fan. I can't stand them. But know what I really saw.

ATLBound · 09-25-2012, 02:39 PM

(09-25-2012 01:56 PM)Beef Wrote: I don't agree, I guess. I saw Tate re-adjusting his right hand to try to get a better grip on the ball after they were already on the ground.

How anyone can say that Jenning didn't have 10x more control than Tate is ridiculous. Jennings' shoulder and back are on top of Tate, smashing his helmet into his face and he's got the ball cradled in his bicep, forearm, and both hands pulled into his chest. The ball would have actually been on the center of his chest if not for Tate's left hand simply being stuck between them.

Again, I'm not a Packers fan. I can't stand them. But know what I really saw.

A simo catch doesnt have anything to do with whom has more control.

A simo catch is based on 2 players having control regardless of the amount.

Also if Player A is in the front and Player B is in the back amd both have a catch. Just because Player B lands on top of Player A doesnt give him more possession. I say this because the way you fall in a pile doesnt determine dominance. It may have appeared asa wrestling match but this aint wrestling.

The play could have gone either way IMO, but in real time I can see how a simo catch was called.

NZFalcon · 09-25-2012, 02:48 PM

All of these calls are putting more pressure on the real refs. When they finally agree to becoming full time officials and come back the fans are gonna expect the calls to be right. The refs will get things wrong and we can all go back to hating the real refs. In fact didn't the refs stuff up a call in a chargers broncos game that resulted in the wrong team winning or something similar a few years ago

Beef · (This post was last modified: 09-25-2012 02:55 PM by Beef.)

(09-25-2012 02:39 PM)ATLBound Wrote: A simo catch doesnt have anything to do with whom has more control.

A simo catch is based on 2 players having control regardless of the amount.

Also if Player A is in the front and Player B is in the back amd both have a catch. Just because Player B lands on top of Player A doesnt give him more possession. I say this because the way you fall in a pile doesnt determine dominance. It may have appeared asa wrestling match but this aint wrestling.

The play could have gone either way IMO, but in real time I can see how a simo catch was called.

Where are you getting your info? Are you quoting from an NFL officiating manual? Or are you just paraphrasing 2nd/3rd/4th hand from what you've heard on TV?

The reason this is so overblown is because everyone who watched the game saw Jennings with 2 hands on the ball and pulled into his chest and cradled in his arm while Tate simply reached up and happened to get 1 hand pinned between the ball and Jennings' chest and then reached in with his right hand after and started pulling unsuccessfully at the ball.

Tate's right hand came in behind the ball after it was double-handed and pulled in by Jennings.

It's really mind boggling how anyone thinks this was a simultaneous catch.

Jennings = 2 hands + pulled into chest + cradled in arm
Tate = 1 hand + other hand from behind searching for grip