NFL: Saints Bounty Thread

[AsylumGuido]

(05-16-2012 10:34 AM)ATLBound Wrote:  You obviously didn't get the question I was asking. That is a freaking article from the picayune...you think I'm gonna believe them and their bias state when all they said is "Payton reportedly told the NFL he didn't read the email."

So once again...

Where is the statement from Payton?

I don't see it in that article, do you? I don't even see a statement from Ornstein advising the comment was in jest. Matter of fact Ornstein declined to comment. That was in the article...did you see that?

Here goes a Guido comment alert?

Maybe Ornstein didn't comment because he knew that comment wasn't in jest?

Okay, here is the article with Ornstein's quotes from last week again. Note that is an Associated Press article, not a Picayune article.

Mike Ornstein's email saying to put him down for bounty money is questioned

The email, obtained by The Associated Press, was written from prison by marketing agent Mike Ornstein shortly before the Saints' 2011 season opener against the Packers. Ornstein once represented Reggie Bush and later got to know members of the Saints' coaching staff.

The bulk of Ornstein's note to the Saints discusses his experiences in prison and offers sometimes brash words of encouragement to various coaches, including then-Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams. The last line states: "PS Gregg Williams put me down for $5000.00 on Rogers (sic)." Ornstein says now that was written "in total jest."

Ornstein was sentenced to eight months in federal prison, which he served in Florence, Colo., for conspiring to scalp Super Bowl tickets and hawking fake "game-worn" jerseys. He was released last fall.

"It's a running joke going for three years," Ornstein said in a phone interview this week, explaining that he had been kidding Williams about bounties ever since the NFC championship game in 2010, after which the Vikings told the NFL that they believed the Saints had a bounty on quarterback Brett Favre.

[AsylumGuido]

(05-16-2012 11:24 AM)Beef Wrote:  You misread the context. I wasn't speaking about the validity of it being a joke or not. I was only explaining that for someone to "insist" in this case, that this is only that person's opinion. They are not quoting Ornstein or Payton. And for them to give there opinion like this, they obviously know them. Which of course means they're biased.

I just posted the quote to the Associated Press from Ornstein stating it was a joke. I doubt the AP is biased toward the Saints.

[Falconidae]

(05-16-2012 11:32 AM)AsylumGuido Wrote:  I just posted the quote to the Associated Press from Ornstein stating it was a joke. I doubt the AP is biased toward the Saints.

When did PAYTON claim he was misquoted?

And why should I believe Orstein about anything? If there's one person in bountygate who has shown himself to be a liar, it's Ornstein.

[AsylumGuido]

Here's another story with more quotes from Ornstein. This one is from NFL.com Wire Reports.

Mike Ornstein says $5K bounty on Aaron Rodgers really a joke

An email from an imprisoned friend of the Saints' coaching staff with a postscript saying "put me down for $5,000" on Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers has become another sore point between players being punished for New Orleans' bounty system and the NFL.

The email, obtained by The Associated Press, was written from prison by marketing agent Mike Ornstein shortly before the Saints' 2011 season opener against the Packers. Ornstein once represented running back Reggie Bush and later got to know members of the Saints' coaching staff.

The bulk of Ornstein's note to the Saints discusses his experiences in prison and offers sometimes brash words of encouragement to various coaches, including then-Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams. The last line states: "PS Gregg Williams put me down for $5000.00 on Rogers (sic)." Ornstein now says that was written "in total jest."

Ornstein was sentenced to eight months in federal prison, which he served in Florence, Colo., for conspiring to scalp Super Bowl tickets and hawking fake "game-worn" jerseys. He was released last fall.

"It's a running joke going for three years," Ornstein said in a telephone interview this week, explaining he had been kidding Williams about bounties ever since the NFC Championship Game in 2010, after which the Minnesota Vikings told the NFL they believed the Saints had a bounty on quarterback Brett Favre.

When shown Ornstein's note in its entirety, an attorney for suspended Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma echoed his criticism from earlier this week that the NFL is manipulating evidence to strengthen a weak case.

"Ornstein's email is just another example of the speciousness of the quote-unquote evidence that Commissioner (Roger) Goodell claims to have to support his erroneous accusations against Jonathan and the other players," lawyer Peter Ginsberg said. "As more of the evidence is revealed in the media, it is becoming more and more apparent how irresponsible the NFL's actions have been."

The NFL didn't immediately respond Thursday night to a request for comment, but in a March 2 report distributed to teams, the league acknowledged possession of Ornstein's email to Payton "committing $5,000 towards a bounty on an opposing quarterback, which the coach recognized was a pledge towards a bounty."

In a report released March 21, the NFL highlighted Ornstein's line about Rodgers, stating it came in an email that Saints coach Sean Payton received from "a close associate." Payton and the other coaches on the staff didn't receive the email from Ornstein directly, but from Saints spokesman Greg Bensel, who forwarded it Sept. 3 to the coaching staff with the subject line: "email from Orny (he asked that I send it) the dude is in prison so I told him I would."

Now living in Los Angeles, Ornstein said by phone that he had joked with Williams about bounties on other star players, including one other time in an email about Carolina Panthers quarterback Cam Newton. Ornstein said he never would have pledged the kind of money he joked about for any pay-for-performance program, never mind one that promoted injurious tackles.

"As long as I've worked with people in the NFL, everyone who knows me knows that the only things I've ever done for players is things that help them, not hurt them," Ornstein said. "First of all, I don't have $5,000 to put down. When I wrote that email, I was in jail. How was I going to pay for it? In stamps? I'm in federal jail in Florence."

[pauliwood]

(05-16-2012 11:30 AM)AsylumGuido Wrote:  "It's a running joke going for three years," Ornstein said in a phone interview this week, explaining that he had been kidding Williams about bounties ever since the NFC championship game in 2010, after which the Vikings told the NFL that they believed the Saints had a bounty on quarterback Brett Favre.

So what you are saying is that if you joke about something that you are guilty of, it absolves all guilt?

[AsylumGuido]

(05-16-2012 11:36 AM)Falconidae Wrote:  When did PAYTON claim he was misquoted?

And why should I believe Orstein about anything? If there's one person in bountygate who has shown himself to be a liar, it's Ornstein.

What do you mean misquoted?

[AsylumGuido]

(05-16-2012 11:42 AM)pauliwood Wrote:  So what you are saying is that if you joke about something that you are guilty of, it absolves all guilt?

Get real.

[pauliwood]

(05-16-2012 11:45 AM)AsylumGuido Wrote:  

Get real.

exactly

[AsylumGuido]

(05-16-2012 11:42 AM)pauliwood Wrote:  So what you are saying is that if you joke about something that you are guilty of, it absolves all guilt?

The joke was used as proof of their guilt by the league. What you are asking makes no sense. Which came first, the chicken or the egg. If it was indeed a joke then it makes their guilt that much more questionable.

You can also rephrase what you asked as ... So what you are saying is that if you joke about something that you are accused of doing then you are guilty of doing it?

[Falconidae]

(05-16-2012 08:54 AM)Falconidae Wrote:  so Guido, I ask about:

"When shown the email during the course of the investigation, Coach Payton stated that it referred to a "bounty" on Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers."

You reply with:

He [Payton] said it was/could be referring to a bounty. It doesn't mean that a real "bounty" was in place. He also stated, not included in Goodell's release, that he had never seen that email it was presented.

Your "proof" for that statement is:

"Among the 18,000 documents league investigators examined is an email from Ornstein to Saints' coaches last season in which he pledged money for a knockout blow to Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers before the NFL kickoff game, according to a source familiar with the situation.

That same source insists Ornstein sent the message in jest. Payton reportedly told NFL investigators last week he did not read the email."


Which says nothing about Payton saying "was/could" or Payton saying it was a joke. If Payton claims he didn't say that or that the NFL misrepresented what he said about the email, then you have a point, but you haven't shown me that.


So, do you have a quote from Payton where he denies the bounty email or claims it was a joke. Payton, not an unnamed source.

And why wouldn't Payton simply state it was a joke to begin with?

(05-16-2012 11:42 AM)AsylumGuido Wrote:  What do you mean misquoted?

See the post I quoted above. Payton himself has not been quoted as saying was/could or that it was a joke.

And why should I believe Ornstein?