NFL: Listen to Tim Tebow’s comeback against the Bears

[Radical]

(12-18-2011 03:04 AM)phocis850 Wrote:  Flipside to this is being a Christian and watching all those influences get stripped away from you. I agree that alcohol sales laws are stupid. But, you have to understand that the majority of the country was in favor of it. Christianity was rampant in this country. As you can see, little by little things are changing -1 for Christians +1 for everyone else.

Except everyone else was at -1 and the Christians at +1.

Changing our national motto, the Pledge of Allegiance, state laws, federal laws, our court system. It was wrong to begin with, the Establishment Clause clearly states this.

[phocis850]

(12-18-2011 03:23 AM)Radical Wrote:  Except everyone else was at -1 and the Christians at +1.

Changing our national motto, the Pledge of Allegiance, state laws, federal laws, our court system. It was wrong to begin with, the Establishment Clause clearly states this.

Different times. They made sense at the time they were established.
Even slavery was considered ok.

These are new times. We are seeing more equality than ever before.
Just because something was established before from generations past, doesn't mean it's the current generations fault.
That's what I've never understood about that type of prejudice and racism.

Could you blame Tebow personally for current and past laws of this country?

[Radical]

(12-18-2011 03:38 AM)phocis850 Wrote:  Just because something was established before from generations past, doesn't mean it's the current generations fault.
That's what I've never understood about that type of prejudice and racism.

It is for those that defend it and vote for politicians that vow to uphold it.

[mcsupersport]

(12-18-2011 03:49 AM)Radical Wrote:  It is for those that defend it and vote for politicians that vow to uphold it.

You and many others miss the point.
It is Freedom OF Religion NOT Freedom FROM Religion. Government can't tell you to go to church and that you have to be a practicing anything, but it also can't and shouldn't be involved in telling you that you CAN'T practice your religion. That is forcing the Atheist beliefs on Christians and the Religious.

You don't want to pray in public, fine don't, just don't try to tell others they can't as well. Most laws have a basis in Christian beliefs, adultery, theft, murder all have a basis in religious laws. Heck, look how Honor Killing of Women/Girls is accepted in some Muslim controlled countries, where here it is punishable as murder.

[monoxide]

(12-17-2011 08:37 PM)Peyton Wrote:  I've never seen an atheist as angry as cooper.

the new atheist movement (Dawkins, Dennett, Harris, Hitchens before cancer) has kind of brought in a new "anger" to being an atheist. Atheists themselves used to be very comfortable in maintaining that the universe is eternal and uncaused. The problem is that they can no longer hold that position because modern evidence that the universe started with the Big Bang. So they can't legitimately object when a Christian makes the same claim about God: He is eternal and uncaused. But what are you gonna do? At this point, let the skeptics snicker and moan every time the idea of a higher power or fine tuner is brought up. The Earth began to exist, and since everything that begins to exist must have a cause, where's the superstitious nonsense in believing that this unexplainable first cause could be a supreme being?

Not trying to get into a religious argument, it just fascinates me how "I don't believe in God" turns into "I refuse to acknowledge the fact that Christianity has done great things in America, and would rather cite the crusades and suicide bombers to dress down religion". I can make strawman arguments about Mao and Stalin being staunch atheists during their path to destruction, but why should I hastily assume that not believing in God leads to genocidal Communism? I guess two can play that game...

[ATLBound]

Great point...it's starts from respecting one another. You can publicly like the Saints, Eagles, Cowboys, etc. and we can be best friends and you can be a good person even if we are not best friends. The key thing here is to be respectful of eachother and if you know the person can take a joke then throw one in there every now and then.

Same thing should equate to religion or lack there of. I understand religion is on a higher ground bc in most cases it determines how u want to live your life but if I'm respectful of your decision then I would hope I can get the same in return.

Simply put he likes a different team than you do. I'm not scolding a Saints fan because he's a public Saints fan. I have enough faith in my team to just acknowledge and move on.
I'm not scolding a Muslim, atheists, etc for being public about his faith. I have enough faith in my religion to just acknowledge and move on.

And I'm a Christian who has 3 atheist friends and we have a great time togerher. We have had conversations about each side but we keep it respectful. Tebow to my knowledge hasnt disrespected any other religion.

[Radical]

(12-18-2011 11:52 AM)mcsupersport Wrote:  You and many others miss the point.

It is Freedom OF Religion NOT Freedom FROM Religion. Government can't tell you to go to church and that you have to be a practicing anything, but it also can't and shouldn't be involved in telling you that you CAN'T practice your religion. That is forcing the Atheist beliefs on Christians and the Religious.

You don't want to pray in public, fine don't, just don't try to tell others they can't as well. Most laws have a basis in Christian beliefs, adultery, theft, murder all have a basis in religious laws. Heck, look how Honor Killing of Women/Girls is accepted in some Muslim controlled countries, where here it is punishable as murder.

And again, Establishment Clause. When you're mixing international policy with religious beliefs with what we do with Israel, you prevent people from purchasing alcohol on specific days because of religious beliefs, you change the national motto to recognize your god, and change the Pledge of Allegiance as well, you're simply wrong to say that isn't overstepped the bounds of the First Amendment. Outside of the most extreme atheists, no one is telling Christians that they can't practice their religion, only that they keep it out of government.

I mean, you're talking about praying in public? It's never been about a bunch of atheists mad about people praying in public. You can pray in school if you want, as long as it isn't an interruption and it isn't being led by government employees during school hours. I call bullshit on you saying most laws have basis in Christian beliefs. Not only is that untrue, but your examples of adultery, theft, and murder were considered crimes in many places before Christianity. The Native Americans, Romans, and even in India it was considered immoral and outlawed. Theft and murder have almost been universally outlawed going back thousands of years. Whatever you're pushing with that, I'm not buying.

[phocis850]

(12-18-2011 03:49 AM)Radical Wrote:  It is for those that defend it and vote for politicians that vow to uphold it.

Yep. And what is the problem with majority rule all of a sudden?

[ATLBound]

(12-18-2011 12:48 PM)phocis850 Wrote:  Yep. And what is the problem with majority rule all of a sudden?

There wouldn't be a problem with it if it went the other way around

[Radical]

(12-18-2011 12:48 PM)phocis850 Wrote:  Yep. And what is the problem with majority rule all of a sudden?

This nation isn't a theocracy, or a pure democracy. We've had fundamental laws since our founding, and they have been subverted.