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Swift Is a Die Hard · 02-08-2011, 03:16 PM

(02-08-2011 03:05 PM)TheDirtyWord Wrote: There is bringing in weapons and then there is bringing in the right weapons.

Now as far as Tony G. goes, while his hands are still reliable, he should now be considered slow...even by TE standards. And quite frankly, it seemed that with Gonzo in tow, the offense morphed to accomodate his abilities which included reliability in the short-to-intermediate area. Gonzo formed a bond/connection with Ryan and as such, Ryan felt confident in going his way. In developing this aspect of his game though, there was noone to exploit coverages downfield.

To term Harry Douglas as a weapon, is a demonstration of lack of understanding of the term. He hasn't produced although it hasn't been entirely his fault. But he showed none of the promise this year, that he showed in 2008.

As for Turner, no one is debating how good he is...but he does nothing in the passing game. And to our point about the Rodgers and his TE, his TE is actually Jermichael Finley, and even with his #1 TE out, the Packers only accounted for 169 fewer yards and 3 less TD's from that position. Granted he was injured in Week 5, but that goes to show you simply how deep GB was from a skill position (WR/TE) area. He had a reliable vet, and two up-and-coming WR's...one of which many people on this board covet. One last point on this...GB receivers averaged 5.88 YAC in 2010. The Falcons? 3.75...2.13 yards less/completion. That is a HUGE delta.

So...there is absolutely no valid argument that can state that Ryan has what Rodgers has. Does Ryan's WR corps need to go 4 deep? No...but it does need to be able to provide RAC ability

I think it has a lot to do with offensive philosophy ..You stick Harry Douglas and Jenkins in a pass oriented offense and a ELITE QB like Rodgers he will turn them into weapons. We built this team to Ryan strengths ..He does have one of the elite wrs in the league a solid running game and a reliable TE who is a future HOF TE that TD felt the need to spend a 2nd round pick on . Maybe the weapons are built for the QB . Who here is to say Ryan can play in passing offensive system like the Packers or Saints where you have to be accurate have touch on deep ball and fit ball into spots and Ryan has not showed he can do that in 3 years consistently

There has to be a reason why we lacked the big explosive plays

1)QB
2)Scheme
3) Lack of play makers..

I have a hard time believing Roddy /HD/Jenkins cant go deep ..they can we have seen it..

You saw the pathetic throw by Ryan in pro bowl
Or how bout playoff game where Jenkins ( was wide open beat coverage) and Ryan was late with read and threw ball like a girl

There has to come a point maybe Ryan is who he is a intermediate type passer /smart good decisions just not able to open it up down field or hit seam routes

Paulitik · 02-08-2011, 03:26 PM

(02-08-2011 03:09 PM)Swift Is a Die Hard Wrote: When a QB has talent they have talent regardless sitting 3 years is irrelevant shit it could be looked as a mistake in all regards cause Rodgers clearly has the talent to play QB position .So while sitting behind a QB has its advantages from studying film and preparation those hav always been Matt Ryan strong point there is no knock on him about that . Rodgers could have been more successful and maybe have 2 rings by now if he started early problem lies GB had a HOF legend in front of him .

I think the age /years played argument is quite foolish imo...case in point

Josh Freeman had a better 2nd year then Ryan ..is anyone here including me going to say Freeman is better then Ryan cause his 2nd year he had a better season

We can coulda woulda shoulda all day. That's like me saying "If Matt Ryan had Green Bay's D in 08, 09, and this year he'd have 3 rings by now!" You can't have it both ways. If Rodgers was the HOF QB you think he is 3 years ago, he would have taken Favre's job sooner. It's not like Thompson wouldn't have kicked him out sooner if he had a chance.

Matt Ryan missed almost 3 games due to injury in his second season. Freeman was healthy. Once again apples to oranges.

It is absolutely absurd to be down on Matt Ryan considering all he has done, expecting him in his 3rd year to be as accomplished as a 6 year vet should be. especially when he's more accomplished than most anyway.

Give up and admit, all you've done since there have been Atlanta Falcons Message Boards is instigate arguments about Falcons QBs. Pissing people off is what you live for. We can sit all day and throw meaningless statistics out, spinning them to make our points. But no matter what you want to believe Matt Ryan is the real deal, and is the future of the Atlanta Falcons. Go support another team if you can't deal with that.

BullRush · 02-08-2011, 03:26 PM

" I'm gonna add him to the ignore list"-... really? My ignore function works better. I ignore the comment.

Swift has a lot of valid and truthful points. Ive never seen him exaggerate a point to make Ryan seem worst than he is or even Vick for that matter. Lot of people get upset with his "realist" POV, but I find it refreshing sometimes. I wish more fans were more realistic. I think of him as yang to every Matt Ryan can-do-no-wrong-best-QB-future HOF-elite QB-no other near his age can be better-yin attitude. There are plenty of people the shower undue praise on Ryan as much as Swift "hates". No one does this with other players. Ive yet to hear "you dont like dunta robinson and love Champ so much, go be a Broncos fan.

However, Swift i prefer it when make your arguments solely with Matt Ryan. No need to compare him with other QBs. Yes AR is elite but he and Ryan arent on the same team and your comparisons should only be made if AR was backing up MR. No need to kick a hornets just cause. Im not sold on everyones view of Ryan either(Im still not convinced he's a lot better than Redman), but I dont go flaunting it around. I save those debates for my personal friend&relatives.

It is annoying so Chill out with it, Dude

RFlagg · 02-08-2011, 03:32 PM

The biggest difference for Matt Ryan, the one place where he has not improved since his rookie season, is YAC. A special on ABC this past weekend where Tom Brady said it best "The QB Rating formula is flawed. A QB can through a 4 yard slant, the WR breaks a tackle and runs for an 80 yard score, and the QB gets a rating of 156.3 or whatever the highest rating is. I think wins is a better way to judge a QB." And Tom is right, here are the Falcons YAC numbers starting with the 2008 season.

Yards After Catch
2008 - 1362
2009 - 1177
2010 - 1354

YAC Per Completion
2008 - 5.14
2009 - 3.55
2010 - 3.75

This could be caused by a number of factors: the sceme being run, the QB not leading his receivers, receivers breaking less tackles than in 2008, etc. But the fact is, this is why the Falcons offense doesn't appear to push the ball down the field, our receivers get almost YAC.

Swift Is a Die Hard · 02-08-2011, 03:35 PM

(02-08-2011 03:26 PM)BullRush Wrote: " I'm gonna add him to the ignore list"-... really? My ignore function works better. I ignore the comment.

Swift has a lot of valid and truthful points. Ive never seen him exaggerate a point to make Ryan seem worst than he is or even Vick for that matter. Lot of people get upset with his "realist" POV, but I find it refreshing sometimes. I wish more fans were more realistic. I think of him as yang to every Matt Ryan can-do-no-wrong-best-QB-future HOF-elite QB-no other near his age can be better-yin attitude. There are plenty of people the shower undue praise on Ryan as much as Swift "hates". No one does this with other players. Ive yet to hear "you dont like dunta robinson and love Champ so much, go be a Broncos fan.

However, Swift i prefer it when make your arguments solely with Matt Ryan. No need to compare him with other QBs. Yes AR is elite but he and Ryan arent on the same team and your comparisons should only be made if AR was backing up MR. No need to kick a hornets just cause. Im not sold on everyones view of Ryan either(Im still not convinced he's a lot better than Redman), but I dont go flaunting it around. I save those debates for my personal friend&relatives.

It is annoying so Chill out with it, Dude

sounds good man ..will do

I just want that next great QB and after rookie year we all thought we had that one been 2 years since and no playoff wins and just compile of regular season success our fan base is starting to fall into Vick zone where QB cn do no wrong and its everyone else around him...OC/WRS/RB all excuses starting to be made up..

As a fan of this team for so long I want a ring I want to know how it feels when you wake up that monday and you are a super bowl champion ..but that will never keep me from voicing my opinion as a fan

I might come off as a negative fuck but its only from being a fan of this franchise and being teased with lil success you want more. The people who take the approach of well " this team is heading in right direction " yeah but you never know whats going to happen our fortunes can change on drop of a dime and then feel like wasted years

dont understand why there arent more people screaming and devastated from this playoff loss

cooperbh · 02-08-2011, 03:43 PM

(02-08-2011 03:26 PM)BullRush Wrote: Swift has a lot of valid and truthful points. Ive never seen him exaggerate a point to make Ryan seem worst than he is

Yeah, saying that Ryan "threw ball like a little girl" isn't an exaggeration.

Look, there are currently two threads on the first page of this forum devoted solely to the subject of Swift. Please go sing his praises in one of those.

BullRush · 02-08-2011, 03:49 PM

(02-08-2011 03:32 PM)RFlagg Wrote: The biggest difference for Matt Ryan, the one place where he has not improved since his rookie season, is YAC. A special on ABC this past weekend where Tom Brady said it best "The QB Rating formula is flawed. A QB can through a 4 yard slant, the WR breaks a tackle and runs for an 80 yard score, and the QB gets a rating of 156.3 or whatever the highest rating is. I think wins is a better way to judge a QB." And Tom is right, here are the Falcons YAC numbers starting with the 2008 season.

Yards After Catch
2008 - 1362
2009 - 1177
2010 - 1354

YAC Per Completion
2008 - 5.14
2009 - 3.55
2010 - 3.75

This could be caused by a number of factors: the sceme being run, the QB not leading his receivers, receivers breaking less tackles than in 2008, etc. But the fact is, this is why the Falcons offense doesn't appear to push the ball down the field, our receivers get almost YAC.

This is a result of locking down a target and not spreading the ball around enough. All our receivers have the abilty to break away
White has the power
Jenkins has the ability to position himself in the right place
HD has the agility and Shiftiness
Finn even has the power needed...but boy is he slow lol

TheDirtyWord · 02-08-2011, 03:49 PM

(02-08-2011 03:16 PM)Swift Is a Die Hard Wrote: I think it has a lot to do with offensive philosophy ..You stick Harry Douglas and Jenkins in a pass oriented offense and a ELITE QB like Rodgers he will turn them into weapons. We built this team to Ryan strengths ..He does have one of the elite wrs in the league a solid running game and a reliable TE who is a future HOF TE that TD felt the need to spend a 2nd round pick on . Maybe the weapons are built for the QB . Who here is to say Ryan can play in passing offensive system like the Packers or Saints where you have to be accurate have touch on deep ball and fit ball into spots and Ryan has not showed he can do that in 3 years consistently

There has to be a reason why we lacked the big explosive plays

1)QB
2)Scheme
3) Lack of play makers..

I have a hard time believing Roddy /HD/Jenkins cant go deep ..they can we have seen it..

You saw the pathetic throw by Ryan in pro bowl
Or how bout playoff game where Jenkins ( was wide open beat coverage) and Ryan was late with read and threw ball like a girl

There has to come a point maybe Ryan is who he is a intermediate type passer /smart good decisions just not able to open it up down field or hit seam routes

Your faith in Jenkins is noted...and I would say that aside from 2008, 2010 was his best year. But he's simply limited. He struggles alot to separate from single coverage. For a 6'5 WR, he is awfully soft and easy to bring down. If I had to wrap up Jenkins inabilities in one succinct term, it would be that there is no suddenness to his game. His YAC in 2010? 2.0. AWFUL. In 2009 it wasn't much better (2.36). Even in 2008, it was 3.5...but that also includes Matt Ryan's first professional pass. Without that, that number is closer to 2.5.

When you say go deep, yes, anyone can run fly patterns. But how much separation are they creating? That's what gives you high YAC numbers in addition to be elusive (which Jenkins isn't). I've been a Jenkins basher and in all fairness, like I said, I thought he played up to his abilities this year. The drops and lapses were not extremely evident like they were in 2009. And he was consistent this year...but he was consistently ordinary. He poses no threat to the opposing defense.

Now, I do believe Ryan has to return more to his 2008 form and there needs to be an onus on him to attack and embrace that part of his development. But you can only do so much with a #1 WR, an aging TE with no speed and a milquetoast #2 WR.

**atljbo** · 02-08-2011, 03:50 PM

I dont get it... How did this man showing Ryan's progression turn into Rodgers love fest again...lol.. and this is coming from a guy whose 2nd fav QB is Aaron Rodgers.... This is crazy... You said most on here would put Ryan over Rodgers.... WHO DUDE ? THAT WAS JUST YOUR WAY TO TURN SOMETHING INTO ANOTHER ARGUMENT.

You keep saying .. Rodgers lost his RB and TE.... Heck teams want him to have his RB so the ball wont be in his hands.... The guy is a Great QB with THE BEST WR GROUP IN THE NFL.... James Jones and Jordy Nelson would easily be a #2 WR on most Rosters including ours.... Heck Matt Flynn came in and threw for 251 yards, 3 TD's, 1 int and a passer rating over 100 vs the Patriots (the team with the best record in the NFL) ...

I just dont get why if anyone shows Ryan a little love... it has to turn into this.... We know the guy is 0-2 in the playoffs and we know he have to improve his game... But its no doubt he took a big step this year and he has shown no reason why we shouldnt expect him to improve even more... You bring up Vick.... Its totally different... Vick's game never progressed... Matt Has shown progression.

BullRush · 02-08-2011, 03:51 PM

(02-08-2011 03:43 PM)cooperbh Wrote: Yeah, saying that Ryan "threw ball like a little girl" isn't an exaggeration.

Look, there are currently two threads on the first page of this forum devoted solely to the subject of Swift. Please go sing his praises in one of those.

Ive heard people compare Ryan to Jesus, so...