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ATLBound · 01-25-2011, 09:18 PM

(01-25-2011 04:43 PM)Peyton Wrote: I wouldn't have sympathy for him if I was on a jury. The boss asked him to take it off. Bosses ask us to do things that seem unfair all the time out here in the professional world.

The boss gave him the choice of wearing the tie or keeping his job. He chose to take a stand with the tie.

I don't see how there is a case there....straight up insubordination.

That's not insubordination!!!

When you get accepted to a job there is a dress code, especially a car dealership. If there isn't anywhere in the dress code that specifically states you cannot wear Packers colors or any team for that matter then he is welllll within his right to wear it.

I guarantee the only dress code it says is business casual or shirt, tie, casual pants, etc.

Now if it just so happens to be in there then THAT and only that would be considered insubordination. In something like a car dealership where there is a long list of managers above managers there is a standard that's accepted across the board.

He could easily win a lawsuit.

ATLBound · 01-25-2011, 09:25 PM

(01-25-2011 05:43 PM)chazmataz Wrote: as someone who's been in management for a long time, i can say that there are a lot of times that bosses ask employees to do things they don't want to do. the facts that the dealership had the arrangements with the bears are irrelevant really. a boss doesn't have to say why. Maybe his manner of asking wasn't the best, for that he would certainly need 'coaching' in his ability to lead his employees. it's still a manner of insubordination as peyton said.

if he goes to court in wisconsin, he might win, i doubt he would in Illinois though. heck they might even bring back public hanging.... LOL

You can't compare apples with oranges. They are both fruits but different styles. I don't know where you work but at my job I am required to where business casual. If I wear a Falcons tie and my boss is a Saints fan he can't fire me if he tells me to take it off and I don't.

In actuality I can go ABOVE my bosses head and possibly get him fired because of him not following the rules.

Now if I owned my OWN company and I told someone they could not wear Saints clothing then that could be a different story, but it would be something that was mentioned during the time of the hiring.

ATLBound · 01-25-2011, 09:36 PM

(01-25-2011 08:58 PM)chazmataz Wrote: as for general standards of employment, georgia is a 'right to work' 'at will' state. i can fire someone if i don't like the way they comb their freaking hair, or the color of their shirt if i want. of course, they'll draw unemployment, but i wouldn't have to worry about being sued because i discriminated against someone who parts his hair on the left side instead of the right.

actually i worked for pepsi for 6 years, i saw people get fired for bringing cokes to work. i knew guys who worked for coke, who've been fired for bringing pepsi. son in laws best friend loves mountain dew, it's a pepsi product. he works for coke, was told not to get caught drinking mountain dew on company property, while driving a company truck or even in a public place while in his coca cola uniform.
you're never going to convince me that firing someone abruptly after finding out they root for a rival is the same as discriminating against someone because of race, sex, age, disability, or religion.
unless you claim it's genetics, go to the EEOC webpage, i guess this guy could say, 'my grandfather was a packer fan, my dad was a packer fan, it's in my genes, you can't fire me for something in my genes' i'm joking of course, i really have a hard time with someone saying a falcons fan terminating someone for being a saints fan is the same as someone being fired strictly because of their race, sex, age or religion....that is absolutely ridiculous, and i dare say it would probably be offensive to someone who's actually been discriminated against for one of those reasons.

dont' know where you're going to school chris, study hard and hope you have a good career, when you get the opportunity to take a case like this, good luck with that. make sure you get an all packer fan jury..... but if i'm the opposing council, i'm not gonna let that happen.

one other thing. i work in the food service industry. food service safety guidelines state that wearing rings with stones (yes includes wedding rings) brings the danger of bacteria getting into the food. those nasty lil dudes like the crevices to hide in. also, if one of the stones were to fall out in the food, a customer could sue over that. so that being the case, the restaurant chain i work for clearly has in it's employee handbook that wedding bands can't be worn while in the food prep area. They don't really enforce it, but the rule is there. so technically, anyone who were to be warned, warned, and written up could actually be fired for wearing their wedding ring. and they wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court for sueing the company if the paper work is in order. i wear mine, and if told make a choice, i'd quit.

Dude nobody is saying firing a guy for liking the other team is the EQUIVALENT of firing a guy for race, sex, etc.

What he is saying is that in court this is considered discrimination for doing so.

You basically proved his point in your last statement. You said in the food industry it's in the HANDBOOK that you can't wear your ring with a stone in it, including the wedding ring.

If there was no HANDBOOK at the time of the hiring or anywhere in between him getting fired that was presented to the employee that says "you can't wear any opposing teams against chicago clothing" then it is a case of discrimination in court.

In court it's only black and white. It's either against the law or it isn't, no matter how small or large.

The only part that isn't black and white is the sentencing or the amount he can be sued for.

It would be unconstituional for him to lose that case and if there was only you in the jury, then the judge would overule the decision...lol

**papachaz** · 01-25-2011, 09:54 PM

how is firing someone because they root for a different sports team qualifies as discrimination???? straight from the EEOC website:

Discriminatory practices under these laws also include:

* harassment on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, disability, genetic information, or age;
* retaliation against an individual for filing a charge of discrimination, participating in an investigation, or opposing discriminatory practices;
* employment decisions based on stereotypes or assumptions about the abilities, traits, or performance of individuals of a certain sex, race, age, religion, or ethnic group, or individuals with disabilities, or based on myths or assumptions about an individual's genetic information; and
* denying employment opportunities to a person because of marriage to, or association with, an individual of a particular race, religion, national origin, or an individual with a disability. Title VII also prohibits discrimination because of participation in schools or places of worship associated with a particular racial, ethnic, or religious group.

Employers are required to post notices to all employees advising them of their rights under the laws EEOC enforces and their right to be free from retaliation. Such notices must be accessible, as needed, to persons with visual or other disabilities that affect reading.

show me how being a fan of another sports team in ANY way can be held up in court for any of the above? show me a specific case where it happened, which is the only basis i'll believe that it could happen. unless you're considering another teams fan base a different ethnic group, although i'm not convinced bagheads wouldn't qualify for that, LOL

i didn't prove anything with my last statement, other than what you can wear and can't wear should be listed in the handbook. assuming by your name you're in GA, i could fire you for anything i wanted, this is an at will state. i wouldn't be able to keep you from drawing unemployment, but i could fire you, and you'd have no basis to sue. I have a doctors appt tomorrow, after which i'm going to talk to my attorney about my case, and i'm going to bring this up and see what he says. i'm guessing he'll laugh out loud about it

***Peyton*** · 01-25-2011, 09:55 PM

(01-25-2011 05:20 PM)USAF HART Wrote: Unless there is a rule in the dresscode that says something about not being able to wear a packers tie, then there is no way that the dealership would win the case. It's an easy case for the dude wearing the tie. He wore a suit and tie. The tie just happened to be that of a rival team. It's an easy lawsuit.

Bullshit. The dress code does not matter. If you are at a private business, and the boss tells you to take off a tie, you take it off or you are insubordinate.

Geez dude, you are in the effing military. How could someone in the military not have an understanding of insubordination?

Things must have changed since I got out.

ATLBound · 01-25-2011, 09:56 PM

(01-25-2011 09:54 PM)chazmataz Wrote: how is firing someone because they root for a different sports team qualifies as discrimination???? straight from the EEOC website:

Discriminatory practices under these laws also include:

* harassment on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, disability, genetic information, or age;
* retaliation against an individual for filing a charge of discrimination, participating in an investigation, or opposing discriminatory practices;
* employment decisions based on stereotypes or assumptions about the abilities, traits, or performance of individuals of a certain sex, race, age, religion, or ethnic group, or individuals with disabilities, or based on myths or assumptions about an individual's genetic information; and
* denying employment opportunities to a person because of marriage to, or association with, an individual of a particular race, religion, national origin, or an individual with a disability. Title VII also prohibits discrimination because of participation in schools or places of worship associated with a particular racial, ethnic, or religious group.

Employers are required to post notices to all employees advising them of their rights under the laws EEOC enforces and their right to be free from retaliation. Such notices must be accessible, as needed, to persons with visual or other disabilities that affect reading.

show me how being a fan of another sports team in ANY way can be held up in court for any of the above? show me a specific case where it happened, which is the only basis i'll believe that it could happen. unless you're considering another teams fan base a different ethnic group, although i'm not convinced bagheads wouldn't qualify for that, LOL

i didn't prove anything with my last statement, other than what you can wear and can't wear should be listed in the handbook. assuming by your name you're in GA, i could fire you for anything i wanted, this is an at will state. i wouldn't be able to keep you from drawing unemployment, but i could fire you, and you'd have no basis to sue. I have a doctors appt tomorrow, after which i'm going to talk to my attorney about my case, and i'm going to bring this up and see what he says. i'm guessing he'll laugh out loud about it

the bolded statement is your answer.

Specifically the part where it says "association with"

He denied him emplyment because he was associated with the Packers as his choice of team

***Peyton*** · 01-25-2011, 09:56 PM

(01-25-2011 05:50 PM)ChrisD Wrote: It's not that he "Might" win. He will win.

And to Peyton, regardless of the boss asking him several times, it doesn't matter. It's discrimination, even at one of the lowest levels you may see. Discrimination is discrimination. Whether it be for the simple fact of rooting for a different team than your boss, or be it something major like skin color. In today's law practices it's at just about the same level. (Believe it or not, and don't kill me for saying it, because I'm not the one that decided that, the courts have.)

Dude, I don't know where you are taking law classes at, but you might think about withdrawing and looking for a different place to attend.

ATLBound · 01-25-2011, 10:01 PM

(01-25-2011 09:55 PM)Peyton Wrote: Bullshit. The dress code does not matter. If you are at a private business, and the boss tells you to take off a tie, you take it off or you are insubordinate.

Geez dude, you are in the effing military. How could someone in the military not have an understanding of insubordination?

Things must have changed since I got out.

This has to be presented to the employee during the time of employment or anytime in between the firing.

IF it is privately owned then there may be leeway to make up rules as you go, but I'm pretty confident this isn't a privately owned situation.

This car dealership mostlikely has a set of rules that they go by and it's presented when you first get employed.

Just like the guy gave the example of a handbook given in the food industry providing GUIDELINES as to what you are allowed or not allowed to do.

I'm pretty sure "NO PACKERS CLOTHING" was not part of the handbook...lol

***Peyton*** · 01-25-2011, 10:03 PM

Man, you guys are all out of your mind. A private business can change the dress code as they wish. This is a simple case of insubordination.

ATLBound · 01-25-2011, 10:04 PM

(01-25-2011 09:56 PM)Peyton Wrote: Dude, I don't know where you are taking law classes at, but you might think about withdrawing and looking for a different place to attend.

read the post above yours.

Denying employment because of "association with"

He denied employment because he associates with the Packers.

It's clear as day. If during anytime of his employment he was told you can't be a fan of any other team except for the Bear while you are AT work and he accepted that, then for that he can be fired.

It's his business and he can make up the rules. That's IF he owns the business himself. If he being a manager is just an employee of someone who owns the business then lawsuit it is.