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**Gritz** · 03-10-2011, 07:51 PM

(03-10-2011 07:29 PM)phocis850 Wrote: I'm with Jedi on this stance.

What did Roddy have that made him what he is today?
A teacher. We brought in Joe Horn and Petrino and all of a sudden he found out how to actually play the position at an elite level.

We have to face the fact that sometimes young players need to taken under a vets wing to actually start performing at a higher level.

Examples:
Brooking -> Lofton
Horn -> White
Turner/Ovie -> Snelling
Robinson -> Grimes (some would disagree)
Abraham -> Potentially a great player but terrible teacher.

We have a young team that needs to just gain experience. However, some of these players may never pan out unless a vet steps in to make them be what they can be. Abe is a vet, but our line has been a POOR part of our D. He is a great player but I'm thinking that he isn't the vet we need to take someone under his wing. He's had long enough. Maybe Beirmann this year... who knows.

I'm interested to see HD in a few years, but his injury really set that back. White has him by the neck and will make HD a great player in a few years.

I see holes in your argument....

Who the hell taught Matt Ryan....Chris Redman? I don't think so. Sure, there are examples of players being helped and/or tutored by more veteran players, but there are just as many examples of players who were self-motivated.....

Even if Abraham was a great tutor/mentor what could he teach Jerry anyway? The responsibilities of a defensive tackle are so different from a defensive end....it's an apples/oranges type situation.

Jerry is going to be a strong contributor to this defense.

Swift Is a Die Hard · 03-10-2011, 07:52 PM

(03-10-2011 05:56 PM)ggp Wrote: We may never see the Peria Jerry that TD envisioned. He suffered a significant knee injury. Jerry's game is all about explosive speed. Time will tell whether he will ever regain that explosive step. Lord knows, Tommie Harris never regained it.

Yea I agree I also think TD looks as Peters as insurance to Jerry. Peters played well and interior of our line played well at times I like the mix . I wonder what will play out with Anderson but Babs/ Walker/ peters and some of Jerry ain't bad . I do think we should go after a veteran DE and line is set

Beef · 03-10-2011, 08:22 PM

Abe actually took Sidbury down to his Florida training facility to work with him last year, yet he came back & when interviewed by Glazer & asked who he thinks will be a big time player in the coming years, without hesitation Abe said "Biermann, he's a beast, gonna be a double-digit sack guy some day for sure."

Kroy just got done with his very first year as a starter in a position that historically takes 3 years for a player to come into his own & show what the rest of his career would look like at that position. He went from playing 499 snaps to over 900 & I don't think he was quite ready for it. But like history has proven of this position, this is pretty much his coming out year, or close to it. Biermann could surprise the hell out of everyone... except Abraham & this FO, obviously.

And if Abe takes Sidbury under his wing again this offseason, I'm going to continue to be optimistic about him. I seriously believe that he is the quintessential "project" player. He was raw as hell coming out of college. Ridiculous athleticism, but not enough size & certainly lacking the skills. That's why I think this FO pretty much told Abe to take him in & teach him everything he knows. Hopefully it pays off. In fact I bet we see Sid rotating in with Abe a good bit this year.

**Gritz** · 03-10-2011, 08:28 PM

(03-10-2011 08:22 PM)Beef Wrote: Abe actually took Sidbury down to his Florida training facility to work with him last year, yet he came back & when interviewed by Glazer & asked who he thinks will be a big time player in the coming years, without hesitation Abe said "Biermann, he's a beast, gonna be a double-digit sack guy some day for sure."

Kroy just got done with his very first year as a starter in a position that historically takes 3 years for a player to come into his own & show what the rest of his career would look like at that position. He went from playing 499 snaps to over 900 & I don't think he was quite ready for it. But like history has proven of this position, this is pretty much his coming out year, or close to it. Biermann could surprise the hell out of everyone... except Abraham & this FO, obviously.

And if Abe takes Sidbury under his wing again this offseason, I'm going to continue to be optimistic about him. I seriously believe that he is the quintessential "project" player. He was raw as hell coming out of college. Ridiculous athleticism, but not enough size & certainly lacking the skills. That's why I think this FO pretty much told Abe to take him in & teach him everything he knows. Hopefully it pays off. In fact I bet we see Sid rotating in with Abe a good bit this year.

Doesn't exactly sound like a guy who is terrible mentor does it?

***phocis850*** · 03-10-2011, 08:42 PM

Time will obviously tell for all of this, but JA98 doesn't help the argument. Nor does the fact that our line getting consistent pressure help either. Not one player on the line last year outside of Abe was consistent.

For Ryan, I'm sure Redmon showed him a thing or two, but it would be different if Ryan didn't have to teach himself. Look at Tebow and Elway. With that kinda teacher and the same work ethic that Ryan has, Tebow may very well pan out to be a better player than Ryan because of Elway. This would be no fault of Ryan as there is noone here for him to learn from.

Yes, I know there are holes in my logic all over the place, but it's an opinion. There may be holes, but it doesn't mean I'm right or wrong about the need for a few vet players to be used in teaching these young guns.

pauliwood · (This post was last modified: 03-10-2011 08:54 PM by pauliwood.)

this thread is stupid

JOIN THE EMPIRE!!!!!!

Swift Is a Die Hard · (This post was last modified: 03-10-2011 08:55 PM by Swift Is a Die Hard.)

(03-10-2011 08:22 PM)Beef Wrote: Kroy just got done with his very first year as a starter in a position that historically takes 3 years for a player to come into his own & show what the rest of his career would look like at that position. He went from playing 499 snaps to over 900 & I don't think he was quite ready for it. But like history has proven of this position, this is pretty much his coming out year, or close to it. Biermann could surprise the hell out of everyone... except Abraham & this FO, obviously.

Bierman only had 3 sacks ...in 900 snaps your saying that pretty bad considering he logged most of the snaps with a GREAT PASS RUSHER ALONG SIDE of him that took double teams ..He also is a below avg run defender and leaves gaps inside with his pass rush ..problem with our fan base is guys like Bierman have one good game(CLE) they are categorized as potential HALL OF FAME PLAYERS

There has been YOUNG DE making impact plays

Carlos Dunlap
Matt Shaughnessy
Wallace Gilberry

Swift Is a Die Hard · (This post was last modified: 03-10-2011 09:01 PM by Swift Is a Die Hard.)

Bierman didnt even rank top 75 players in sacks...lol kind of sad dont you think for a starting DE

Kind of sad TD gives a 15 $ million dollar contract to Chauncey Davis as well and he does shit

ggp · 03-10-2011, 10:09 PM

(03-10-2011 09:00 PM)Swift Is a Die Hard Wrote: Bierman didnt even rank top 75 players in sacks...lol kind of sad dont you think for a starting DE

Kind of sad TD gives a 15 $ million dollar contract to Chauncey Davis as well and he does shit

I don't know the specifics of that contract, but I doubt Davis will see all of that money.

Beef · (This post was last modified: 03-10-2011 10:17 PM by Beef.)

(03-10-2011 08:54 PM)Swift Is a Die Hard Wrote: Bierman only had 3 sacks ...in 900 snaps your saying that pretty bad considering he logged most of the snaps with a GREAT PASS RUSHER ALONG SIDE of him that took double teams ..He also is a below avg run defender and leaves gaps inside with his pass rush ..problem with our fan base is guys like Bierman have one good game(CLE) they are categorized as potential HALL OF FAME PLAYERS

There has been YOUNG DE making impact plays

Carlos Dunlap
Matt Shaughnessy
Wallace Gilberry

Dunlap had a great rookie season, there's no denying that. Like I said, this is extremely rare but it happens once in a blue moon.

Shaughnessy was in his 2nd year & has 11 total sacks. He had 7 sacks in over 900 plays this year & 4 sacks in 600 plays last year. Biermann had 5 sacks in 499 plays last year.

Gilberry was in his 3rd year & has 11.5 total sacks. He had 7 sacks in over 900 plays this year & 4.5 sacks in almost 900 plays last year & 0 in his rookie year.

Biermann was in his 3rd year & has 10 total sacks & has played less snaps than Shaughnessy & Gilberry. He also has nearly twice as many QB pressures & hits as every single one of these guys. He's also blowing every single one of them away in tackles even though he has taken less snaps (well except for Dunlap of course).

Yes, Biermann only had 3 sacks in 900 snaps after having 5 sacks in 499 snaps. It happens. Abe has had two 4 sack seasons, a 6 sack season, & a 5 sack season as recent as 2 seasons ago.

There's people who know way more than you do who believe in this kid. He's shown enough early enough, especially considering this was his first year as a starter, that it would be foolish to give up on him so soon. This is why I keep saying you're bad at this stuff, because you really just don't get it. All you do is troll us with complaining acting like a silly hindsight armchair warrior.