Football Stuff - teach me something 3 technique - 5 technique

[papachaz]

ok so in another thread, i issued a challenge to two guys who love to argue, to stop arguing and teach me some stuff i don't know. of course anyone is open to join the conversation. while i know there will be some opinion's involved, i want the thread based on things i'll understand, not just your opinion. I'm askin for Beef and Swift to get involved here, i'd like to know:
what's the difference in 3 technique and 5 technique, i heard a lot of this talked about during the draft, and i have very little idea of what they meant.

who do we have that fits either?
what do we need, and why?
who's available in FA that fits that, and why do you think so?

it's all plain and simple just football talk guys, isn't that why we're supposed to be here anyway? I'd like to know a lot more than i do, and i know a lot of you guys could teach me some things, include opinions to an extent, but no arguing

[Beef]

Here's the best thing I could find to help describe the differences in defensive "techniques". Which is really just a way of explaining how/where they line up vs. an offensive line.





Essentially, if you line up just outside the OT's shoulder, you're a 5-technique. And this is the case with both 4-3 or 3-4 sets.

If you line up straight up with the OG or just outside his shoulder between the OG & The OT, you're a 3-technique. But this is really only possible in a 4-3 set. DE's don't line up that close to each other in 3-4's or they're shooting themselves in the foot handing the OL an easy double-team.

Because we're a 4-3, we have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, & even 6 technique sets. Our DE's are ALWAYS 5-technique and occasionally 6 if the OL has 6 on the line with a TE. Our DT's can play 1, 2, 3, or 4 depending on our shift, which is of course dependent on the play that's called.

And with that knowledge, you should have the answer to question #3. (Basically we're looking for a 5-technique DE to rotate with Biermann )

[mdrake34]

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009...pguide.php

Cool, extremely informative website about defensive formations I just found. Very long read, but worth it.

[papachaz]

(05-08-2011 12:36 AM)Beef Wrote:  Here's the best thing I could find to help describe the differences in defensive "techniques". Which is really just a way of explaining how/where they line up vs. an offensive line.





Essentially, if you line up just outside the OT's shoulder, you're a 5-technique. And this is the case with both 4-3 or 3-4 sets.

If you line up straight up with the OG or just outside his shoulder between the OG & The OT, you're a 3-technique. But this is really only possible in a 4-3 set. DE's don't line up that close to each other in 3-4's or they're shooting themselves in the foot handing the OL an easy double-team.

Because we're a 4-3, we have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, & even 6 technique sets. Our DE's are ALWAYS 5-technique and occasionally 6 if the OL has 6 on the line with a TE. Our DT's can play 1, 2, 3, or 4 depending on our shift, which is of course dependent on the play that's called.

And with that knowledge, you should have the answer to question #3. (Basically we're looking for a 5-technique DE to rotate with Biermann )

ok thanks for starting it off. so basically what we call DE is the 5 technique guy, and the DT would be the 3 then, right? so it has nothing to do with how well a guy does when 'he puts his hand in the dirt' or not, or is that just body positioning talk for leverages and such?
EDIT: ok, i went back and read it after i posted, and realized something that might fit in the 'discussion' that was going on in the Jay Glazer thread. So if the LB is lined up outside the OT, more or less to rush the QB off the edge, he needs to be a good '5 technique' guy to have a good percentage of success? I'm referring to all the 'Von Miller is a LB not a DE' discussions...

[papachaz]

i'm gonna throw another question in that goes along then. what makes the GUY a three or five? size and speed? i mean i know the difference in Babs and Abe, Kroy and Peters, it's obvious that their sizes and speed differ a lot. and i do know you would generally want your DE to be a bigger body than a LB, right? so is this why oh, say Justin Houston was considered by a lot of people to be a 'tweener'? he was like bigger than a typical LB but not quite as big as a typical DE?

[Beef]

(05-08-2011 12:42 AM)papachaz Wrote:  ok thanks for starting it off. so basically what we call DE is the 5 technique guy, and the DT would be the 3 then, right? so it has nothing to do with how well a guy does when 'he puts his hand in the dirt' or not, or is that just body positioning talk for leverages and such?

Hand in the dirt is pure preferrence, but for DE's it's kinda like baseball teams always having a lefty to play first base. Lunging from a 3-point stance is akin to track runners. It assists in that initial burst while keeping the DE low and able to utilize the momentum from lower body at an advantageous more powerful angle.

In 3-4 sets, OLB's usually play standing up because they don't want to give away if they're rushing or dropping into coverage. But they're usually 10-20 lbs lighter and a lot faster than a typical DE, so they make up for not having hand in the dirt as a result.

[papachaz]

(05-08-2011 12:36 AM)mdrake34 Wrote:  http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009...pguide.php

Cool, extremely informative website about defensive formations I just found. Very long read, but worth it.

i'm gonna spend some time in there for sure, thanks drake! plus 1

[Beef]

(05-08-2011 12:50 AM)papachaz Wrote:  i'm gonna throw another question in that goes along then. what makes the GUY a three or five? size and speed? i mean i know the difference in Babs and Abe, Kroy and Peters, it's obvious that their sizes and speed differ a lot. and i do know you would generally want your DE to be a bigger body than a LB, right? so is this why oh, say Justin Houston was considered by a lot of people to be a 'tweener'? he was like bigger than a typical LB but not quite as big as a typical DE?

Definitely about size and speed and then where you line up of course. DT's in 4-3 or DE's in 3-4 are about 290+, NT's in a 3-4 are hopefully 330+, and DE's in 4-3 are usually 260 minimum up to around 300 depending on how quick they are.

Houston is almost too big to be a 3-4 OLB, but he's in KC so that's what he'll be. I think he's got the speed to do OLB but I think he would have added 15 lbs and been a perfect DE in the NFL. He'll do well either way and yes, that's why he's considered a tweener.

[NZFalcon]

(05-08-2011 12:36 AM)mdrake34 Wrote:  http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009...pguide.php

Cool, extremely informative website about defensive formations I just found. Very long read, but worth it.

Chur awesome dude, deff gonna read up some of this gotta catch up to you american guys somehow

[FullMetalFalcon23]

Papa, maybe you calf talk to the admins about a Football Strategy and Techniques sub forum in here or as a standalone. I've got a ton of information that would HP people understand the game even more in both sides of the ball. From radar blocking, which I think the broncos might pull out if they are serious about re establishing their ground game. To zone blitzing and inverted and rotating coverages