Falcons: with DC gone, is now a good time to consider switch to 3-4 defense?

[Beef]

I agree, we don't remotely come close to having the players needed for a 3-4. Smitty would never move to a 3-4 either, he's a stonecold 4-3 guy.

Spoon and Nicholas are absolutely not 3-4 LB's. NONE of our DT's are even close to being 3-4 NT's and they certainly aren't quick enough to be 3-4 DE's. And as much as you guys may think otherwise, NONE of our DE's are designed for B/C gap inside penetration and they sure as shit aren't stand-up OLB type edge rushers. They are ALL hands in the dirt 3-point stance 5-technique edge rushers.

Believe it or not, with good DT's, a 4-3 defense can run a ton of exotic and unpredictable blitz packages. The problem for us is our DT's didn't get much penetration this year so most of our LB/nickle/CB blitzes came from the edges and as a result were often telegraphed.

The thing is though, I think we do have very solid DT's, but for whatever reason, BVG's defensive schemes were so vanilla that OL's just had an easier time defending our pass rush. I really think BVG is and always has been just a really good college DC who is out of his league in the NFL.

[Polar Bear Jones]

Could be a hard transition even though Abe dropped back into coverage more than any 4-3 DE this season but he is not getting younger if we do bring him back. Trying to teach an old dog new tricks.
Looking at the dropback stat would make you think we run a 3-4 4-3 hybrid defense it just is not effective. I am not sure how coaching will have an impact. We just need a guy that can make better adjustments. BVG and MM both had issues with that.

Maybe Babs and Peters can play the 3-technique but I am not sure we have a true nose. That leads to interior linemen getting hands on Curtis and Spoon and we are a team that has a lot of "misfits" and bad angles on run plays as it is.

We also are assuming the guys we have at end can stand-up and get to the QB most of those guys cannot do it in there most natural position.

[keithbrooking56]

I totally agree with going back to the 3-4 or some hybrid version of it. We don't need that many changes to make it work and that's what the draft/FA is for.

[Headshot]

(01-09-2012 05:32 PM)Beef Wrote:  I agree, we don't remotely come close to having the players needed for a 3-4. Smitty would never move to a 3-4 either, he's a stonecold 4-3 guy.

Spoon and Nicholas are absolutely not 3-4 LB's. NONE of our DT's are even close to being 3-4 NT's and they certainly aren't quick enough to be 3-4 DE's. And as much as you guys may think otherwise, NONE of our DE's are designed for B/C gap inside penetration and they sure as shit aren't stand-up OLB type edge rushers. They are ALL hands in the dirt 3-point stance 5-technique edge rushers.

Believe it or not, with good DT's, a 4-3 defense can run a ton of exotic and unpredictable blitz packages. The problem for us is our DT's didn't get much penetration this year so most of our LB/nickle/CB blitzes came from the edges and as a result were often telegraphed.

The thing is though, I think we do have very solid DT's, but for whatever reason, BVG's defensive schemes were so vanilla that OL's just had an easier time defending our pass rush. I really think BVG is and always has been just a really good college DC who is out of his league in the NFL.

Peters and Babineaux are the perfect size and have the perfect penetrating ability and run-playing ability to be excellent 3-4 DE's.

And Mike Smith is not a stone cold 4-3 guy, he coached in the 3-4 for a long time in Baltimore.

This idea that "We have nowhere close to the guys to run the 3-4" that I've seen so many Falcons fans convince themselves of is laughable.

Green Bay Packers fans said the EXACT same thing when they were switching to the 3-4, and they were wrong. You know what they did? They moved their DT's to DE and drafted TWO whole players- B.J. Raji and Clay Matthews.

That's how easy it is to draft for the 3-4 and how quickly you can turn it around, but you HAVE to have the meticulous coach that is going to preach technique and preach technique and preach technique. The problem is not "getting the players for the system" because I believe we have those guys, it's getting the coach in here to teach them the 3-4.

[m2Falcons]

Ultimately we would be better off I think running a 3-4 (actually a Hybrid 5-2) with someone that has an imagination, has some guts, has a brain, and the attitude that "we don't take sh!t off anyone" on a WEEKLY basis, game-to-game.

*I don't care at this point if Brees throws another 5 TDs against us... I want his Arse tattooed to the turf a few times before they score another 45 points on us. Who knows... "we might knock him outta' the game if we actually hit him a time or two."

UGA made the 3-4 switch without the personnel; it took them one year to make it pay off pretty well. The TEXANS made it work. We could make it work if we tried.

We would need: (preferably) a legit NT and
a good 5-tech DE (a serviceable guy isn't that hard to get as a FA or in draft)
We could trade some Babs and Peters for a good draft pick I bet.
Jerry might actually be a decent 5-technique DE for us.

We already have a serviceable LB group to convert; Lofton would be much better in a 3-4 scheme, 'Spoon can play any position of the 4 LB spots, Beirmann could play OLB, as could Abe (but I think he isn't really worth resigning > money better spent elsewhere), and I believe that Sidbury would excel as an OLB in a 3-4/5-2 scheme.
That means, we have three key LBs with Sid, Lofton, and Spoon that are great fits, we just look for another ILB or OLB depending on where we want to maximize Spoon... and that's only if Biermann can't quite cut it at OLB... and I think he might do great there.

The secondary would be better off with Dunta and Grimes playing man, Franks and Walls are legit talents to use. Moore is locked in. Still need a real FS but that is no doff than now anyway.

[FullMetalFalcon23]

(01-09-2012 05:19 PM)Headshot Wrote:  100% yes. I've been tooting this horn for 2 years now.

Let Abraham walk.
Move Corey Peters and Babineaux to the two DE spots, and find yourself a space-eating NT and another MLB to play alongside Lofton. Weatherspoon and Biermann coming off the edge and play M2M on the outside.

The 3-4 defense is easier to draft for and easier to quickly turn around defensive production. Green Bay went from 22 to 2 after their switch, and Houston went from 25 to 1 after theirs. Sacks are guaranteed to go up, and that means more opportunities for turnovers.

Mike Smith has experience coaching within a 3-4 scheme, but the key to making it work is getting an expert of it, a guy that knows the defense in and out.

Headshot I think you'd be surprised at the number of guys we have in our depth who would allow us to immediately make such a transition. With the right DC, Spoon could be a prolific OLB rushing. Between Adkins and Nic, we already have the other MLB. I'll be honest and say Nic would be the better MLB option in such an instance to line up alongside Lofton as between them they would provide very good middle field coverage. Away from that I'd say take a look at Adkins as the other OLB before looking at Biermann as the guy has a rapid 4.40. However he may not be the every down type so although with that speed his coverage skills should in theory be above average for a linebacker. We have a lot of guys we could use to give us a rotational pass rush and still provide coverage from the 34. We definitely have the linebackers. But in truth it is having the players to keep the Oline off the potential line backer group that is the most important thing here. We would need to get a hog in the middle and I'm not sure who is available that is going to provide stellar play. I don't know who is in the draft but true 34 nose tackles that really are capable of all of that seem hard to find just anywhere in the draft and you don't just want anyone in there being the anchor and essentially the key to your teams defensive success. We know Corey and John can force double teams. They are nippy guys letting them control the line from the outsides should pay dividends but you really need tha guy who can dominate both the A's or has the smarts to shove the centre into one and fill the other with his body. It's easier said than done guys but I could see it if working if we can get the right man.

[m2Falcons]

dbl post

[m2Falcons]

dang 'puter

[vel]

You guys are forgetting about Nicholas. He would make a good OLB before ILB. It would be hard to make Spoon work though. I think we would be more hybrid before full fledged 3-4. I think we will see more man and match up corners versus this sides crap. Spoon, Lofton, and Nicholas make up a really good LB corps. We need a DT and DE to add to the front four though. Our corners should be good in man. I've been saying all year that Owens was a man corner and not a nickel and he showed up big yesterday. He didn't allow anything beyond 10 yards I don't think. Grimes is shut down. Franks is good. DRob is a true question mark. He lacks effort at times and is still making stupid mistakes. DeCoud should be let go and move Moore to FS. Let him roam and make plays. Get a SS like Roman Harper, a guy with good mid range coverage skills and blitzing ability, but not as much of a liability in the deep half like Harper.

[Headshot]

Nobody forgot about Nicholas, it's just hard to make him fit somewhere. I'd put him at MLB next to Lofton before OLB.

Weatherspoon -- Nicholas -- Lofton -- Biermann
--- Peters ------ (FA/Draft Pick) ------ Babs ---



I could see Weatherspoon having 12-15 sacks as a 3-4 rush OLB.