Falcons: This off season seems like only plan was upgrade rb

[Beef]

(03-20-2013 01:40 PM)Swift Is a Die Hard Wrote:  The Falcons offense failed to convert on short yardage situation in Giants playoff game. It has more to do with interior push with McClure, Blalock inside and Konz wasnt great last year either. Turner is a north/south runner give him a hole he gets through. he doesnt have speed to separate from 2nd tier. Look at QUIZZ IS YPC ?

was quizz a problem last year, he only ran for a 3.9 YPC ..system and run blocking is a issue

It's easily argued that predictability is the issue.

You and I know what's coming when Quizz is in and also when Turner is in. And if we know it, you know the other defense certainly does.

And yet, we still almost made it.

Now imagine when we nor the other defense knows what's coming. How many more first downs can we get a game if we go from Turner in the backfield on 3rd and 1-2 yards or Jackson in the backfield on 3rd and 1-2 yards?

A reliable receiving RB? Who can also pass block like a mofo? Who can also cut and turn around in space after a reception and do more than just north/south? Who can also run a wheel/go route and catch the ball 20 yards down field?

Or a slow RB who can't do half those things and falls down the instant his shoe laces are touched?

Konz is a center. McClure was a huge cause to much of our pocket collapses and poor push on run blocking. If nothing else, the OL shouldn't be worse. A better RB alone should equate to some more of those 3rd downs being converted.

Keeping our offense on the field and the defense off, will help the defense too. When other teams are having to play catch up, they don't have many options. It's much easier to scheme defense when the other offense is in throw throw throw mode just to catch up.

[Swift Is a Die Hard]

(03-20-2013 02:09 PM)Beef Wrote:  TD has been building this team in the draft though.

In 2007 this team was in shambles, missing tons of pieces to be a winning team, much less playoffs or SB. No QB, no RB, Roddy was immature and dropping everything, no TE, no other WR's, and a pedestrian OL. The defense had old as fuck mediocre guys eating up tons of cap space.

TD only has 7 picks in a draft and history has proven that you're lucky to hit on even 2 of them in any given year. Some teams are luckier than others while some teams can't hit on a single player over multiple years.

TD got us our franchise QB. Turner was a gem. Roddy grew up and balled out. Abe was a pass rushing machine. Tony added an entire dimension to the offense that very few teams get. Grimes came out of no where to be a top-5 pass defender. Spoon is a stat machine on his way to multiple pro-bowls. Lofton was a tackling beast inside. Moore, now that healthy, has proven to be a top tier SS and improving every year. Asante has lived up to his hype and given us an edge we were missing.

Only so many moves can be made in a given year and only so many will hit and make a big impact. What TD has done since the pile of turds we fielded in 2007 has been very good. He has hit on way more than most other teams have. But we also had WAY more holes to fill than most other teams had.

To expect us to have been 100% fixed and elite everywhere enough to win multiple playoffs and have already been to the SB is simply unreasonable.

To expect it in 2008, no way. 2009, pushing it because we still had a bunch of holes to fill. 2010, ok make the playoffs is a reasonable expectation. To win and go to the NFCCG or SB, no. Still too many holes, plus now the bandaid we called Mike Mularkey had become so obnoxiously predictable, there's too much standing in the way.

Now 2011, the only issue I have is that we held on to Mularkey a year too long. If there's ONE THING I can get upset about, it's that. We likely had the talent to do better in 2011, but MM fucked us. No way we were going to overcome his scheme.

And 2012, we almost made it. It should have been our year, but fucking Turner can't get a damn yard to save his life and Abe either couldn't get to the passer anymore or was hurt. And, Grimes was missing and we clearly had a couple holes at LB.

It's not for lack of trying by TD though. The move to get Julio took the offense over the top... until Turner stopped running. We now had a legit OC and DC. And then the last draft TD drafted OL and DL and re-signed Abe and tried to bring in another highly touted DE. Edwards being a douche was not in the plans. Dent under-performing expectations was not in the plans. Nicholas under-performing in coverage was not in the plans. Grimes getting hurt was not in the plans. Turner falling off a cliff was not in the plans.

So much bad has happened that's out of TD's control, and yet we still were 1 game from the SB. We wouldn't have even been this close if not for all the good moves he's made.

The only reason why the 2007 team was in shambles was former coach was a coward and we lacked a QB. The team had talent on its roster from Abe, Grimes, Roddy, Babs . The team was not in bad as shape talent wise as people make it out to be off the field had more to do with our circumstances then talent on field


TD Has not been building through the DRAFT... He goes out and overpays Dunta and also spent on Ray Edwards. Its been 5 years and he still was not able to find a pass rusher on the other side of Abe. Biermann and Peters are both rotational players . They should not be full fledge starters.

He then goes the un NEW ENGLAND WAY AND spends 5 draft picks on a WR. that is not building through the draft like Giants, Ravens and Pittsburg Steelers do. That was a Washington Redskins panic move. Now are lack of depth was a direct result from that trade.


So who has TD really nailed in the draft

Ryan- 100% top 10 QB and took next step in his development
Sam Baker- below average LT that had 1 good season
Spoon- is soo overrated by our fan base. He is also been injured as well. Its funny how Lofton got killed for his lack of game changing plays but how many did Spoon have?
Lofton - one of TD better draft picks is gone cause we had to penny pinch
William Moore- injury prone player with talent
Decoud- serviceable starter that still takes poor angles and his bad mistakes outweighs anything positive he does
Vance Walker- gone
Konz- was pretty bad last year but still some hope
Quizz Rodgers- a 3rd down back.

Harry Douglas?? avg player


TD Has not done a great job drafting since the 08 draft



If the move for Julio took us over the top we wouldnt have score 0 points in playoff game vs Giants and we would have outscored the 49ers. Julio move hurt this franchise more then help. Now when we have to pay him a megatron deal in the future and Ryan contract is going to leave this fan base in bad shape.

DID RAVENS OR 49ERS NEED JULIO JONES? Answer the question
Did Aaron Rodgers need Julio Jones?
Did Eli Manning need Julio Jones?

no they can find drafted talent that will be sufficient enough.


YOU SAY WE WERE 10 YARDS AWAY FROM SB

- this team was also 30 seconds away and Pete Carroll not calling timeout and FG sailing right from having another heart breaking playoff loss at home. Now that we cut on our most consistent defensive players and one of the limited play makers ..We also lost depth on the defensive line and our #2 corner


SO what have we really done this off season UPGRADE THE RB POSITION ? whoopie dooooooo we could have did that in draft with such a back like Eddy Lacy or Taylor and not have to pay 2.9 mil towards cap for a 30 year old rb and NO DEFENSE ...Jackson is not going to factor in some games when our defense is allowing points ..

[TeamPlayer1]

(03-20-2013 02:20 PM)Beef Wrote:  It's easily argued that predictability is the issue.

You and I know what's coming when Quizz is in and also when Turner is in. And if we know it, you know the other defense certainly does.

And yet, we still almost made it.

Now imagine when we nor the other defense knows what's coming. How many more first downs can we get a game if we go from Turner in the backfield on 3rd and 1-2 yards or Jackson in the backfield on 3rd and 1-2 yards?

A reliable receiving RB? Who can also pass block like a mofo? Who can also cut and turn around in space after a reception and do more than just north/south? Who can also run a wheel/go route and catch the ball 20 yards down field?

Or a slow RB who can't do half those things and falls down the instant his shoe laces are touched?

Konz is a center. McClure was a huge cause to much of our pocket collapses and poor push on run blocking. If nothing else, the OL shouldn't be worse. A better RB alone should equate to some more of those 3rd downs being converted.

Keeping our offense on the field and the defense off, will help the defense too. When other teams are having to play catch up, they don't have many options. It's much easier to scheme defense when the other offense is in throw throw throw mode just to catch up.

Beef,
This discussion with swift is exactly what Charles Manson's parole board has to deal with. At the end of the session they look at one another and say "WTF?"

[Swift Is a Die Hard]

(03-20-2013 02:20 PM)Beef Wrote:  It's easily argued that predictability is the issue.

You and I know what's coming when Quizz is in and also when Turner is in. And if we know it, you know the other defense certainly does.

And yet, we still almost made it.

Now imagine when we nor the other defense knows what's coming. How many more first downs can we get a game if we go from Turner in the backfield on 3rd and 1-2 yards or Jackson in the backfield on 3rd and 1-2 yards?

A reliable receiving RB? Who can also pass block like a mofo? Who can also cut and turn around in space after a reception and do more than just north/south? Who can also run a wheel/go route and catch the ball 20 yards down field?

Or a slow RB who can't do half those things and falls down the instant his shoe laces are touched?

Konz is a center. McClure was a huge cause to much of our pocket collapses and poor push on run blocking. If nothing else, the OL shouldn't be worse. A better RB alone should equate to some more of those 3rd downs being converted.

Keeping our offense on the field and the defense off, will help the defense too. When other teams are having to play catch up, they don't have many options. It's much easier to scheme defense when the other offense is in throw throw throw mode just to catch up.

again we could have drafted a future rb in this years draft that wouldnt have to create a hole in 2 years like SJAX will. we are going to have to replace him. We have some young players on defense already that Falcons are counting on going forward. Mass & Matthews. What we need is IMPACT defensive players now

Ryan would have been fine with Julio and Roddy and a young TE and young rb..

instead we got 8 million tied up in cap in players that are not going to be here in 2 years..Instead we could have brought in some defensive impact players and still been able to groom Mass and Matthews as eventual replacements. Now they are going to be thrown into the fire and if they fail not only will we need defensive players were going to need a running back and future tight end


It was bad planning this off season on TD . I know you might not see that but this team was better off suited going younger on offense while bringing in defensive impact players now while grooming some of young players

[Beef]

Ugh, you're just hopeless, Swift.

You simply refuse to see anything good and dwell on the negative.

Nobody can have a reasonable debate with you because you're just not honest enough about the issues. You exaggerate and nit pick and slant everything to the negative, so it's impossible for you to sway anyone elses perspective or for someone to sway yours. So it's futile and a waste of time.

[Swift Is a Die Hard]

Falcons could have looked like this

QB-Matt Ryan
RB -Quizz, Snelling, Lacy
WR-Julio Jones, Roddy White, Harry Douglas
TE- Delanie Walker,(draft pick) Coffman
LT-Baker
LG-Justin Blalock
C-Konz
RG-Reynolds
RT-Clabo

DEFENSE 2013

DE-Elvis or Osi
DT-Sammie Hill/Walker
DT-Babs
DE-Abe ( restructured )
OLB- Nicholas
MLB-Dent or Dansby
OLB-Spoon

We could have brought Grimes back as well .


Tying up 8 million in cap hit on 2 aging players is not smart its reason why we cut Abraham

[Swift Is a Die Hard]

(03-20-2013 02:38 PM)Beef Wrote:  Ugh, you're just hopeless, Swift.

You simply refuse to see anything good and dwell on the negative.

Nobody can have a reasonable debate with you because you're just not honest enough about the issues. You exaggerate and nit pick and slant everything to the negative, so it's impossible for you to sway anyone elses perspective or for someone to sway yours. So it's futile and a waste of time.

No its critical thinking. Falcons are going to have to replace Tony G soon correct ?
so why not move on now. Why sign a 30 year old rb for 1 or 2 seasons of production when we could have drafted a young rb to groom into future rb. Like Lacy or Taylor etc etc and got 5 years of production at cheaper rate and less carries

[Beef]

(03-20-2013 02:31 PM)Swift Is a Die Hard Wrote:  again we could have drafted a future rb in this years draft that wouldnt have to create a hole in 2 years like SJAX will. we are going to have to replace him. We have some young players on defense already that Falcons are counting on going forward. Mass & Matthews. What we need is IMPACT defensive players now

Ryan would have been fine with Julio and Roddy and a young TE and young rb..

instead we got 8 million tied up in cap in players that are not going to be here in 2 years..Instead we could have brought in some defensive impact players and still been able to groom Mass and Matthews as eventual replacements. Now they are going to be thrown into the fire and if they fail not only will we need defensive players were going to need a running back and future tight end


It was bad planning this off season on TD . I know you might not see that but this team was better off suited going younger on offense while bringing in defensive impact players now while grooming some of young players

You're making definitive statements again when they're are really just assumptions.

So you want to build through the draft, but we were some how supposed to take care of TE, RB, DE, CB, and LB in this draft and hit good on all of them.

Mark Ingram was a Heisman winner. How'd he work out?

Other than Coby Fleener last year, who was still pedestrian at best, how did every other rookie TE work out?

And you think we'd just "be fine" with a rookie TE and RB. Like replacing 90 receptions and something less predictable and more dynamic than Turner is just that simple.

Come'on man.

Again, we still have cap room and time to get an impact player on defense. Replacing Tony can be done next year if you think it's that easy. Same for SJax. Meanwhile this year we can concentrate 8 or 9 picks on defense or move up for something we really like.

[Swift Is a Die Hard]

we didnt have to replace Tony G 90 receptions with rookie TE . see this is what I mean making dumb counters. We could have replaced those 90 receptions with 10 more to Julio
10 to HD , 10 to Quizz . 20 to the rookie TE . You can divide those 90 catches up easily and Ryan was just fine without Tony. He got Justin Peele involved his rookie season


it's funny show me the one defensive Impact player picked from bottom of draft down. You are thinking Falcons will be fine with replacing Abe with rookie defensive players


Also Alfred Morris did pretty well as rookie rb last year right ?
Vick Ballard
Benard Pierce
Bryce Brown

[mdrake34]

I like that both swift and beef have totally ignored all other responses in this thread, lol.