Threaded Mode | Linear Mode

RnB · 09-26-2011, 12:24 PM

(09-26-2011 10:53 AM)JDaveG Wrote: I think what most of us would appreciate is a little bit of misdirection, creativity, etc. We ran against a stacked box yesterday. I just knew we'd play action, but no, we ran right into the teeth of their defense for a predictable no gain.

We always run from running formations and pass from passing formations. No misdirection, no imagination. Just line up, show them what we're running, and run it. That's fine if you have an o-line full of hosses who can control the LOS, but we don't. We need some imagination to make things happen, and the only time we ever get it is during no huddle (when Ryan can read the field and take advantage of mismatches). It's ridiculous. That's my ONLY problem with Mularkey. I think his system is sound, I think his plays are good, but his playcalling is just unimaginative crap. If he can't fix it, he needs to go. This is going on 4 years now.

I see nothing wrong with it. It has been effective for the four years he has been here. Matt is smart enough to check out of bad plays. Our no huddle is spectacular. We did run some play action yesterday. Turner did get stuffed at the line a couple times. You can nitpick all you want but we have a solid team, a solid FO, and a solid coaching staff. If you are interested in the bigger picture, this is a great time to be a Falcons fan.

I definitely don't agree that our formations are lackluster. That is what MM is known for, varied formations. Are you honestly trying to tell me that the only time our offense is "creative" is when we are in a no huddle? Come on man, the same plays we run in the no huddle, we run OUTSIDE of it.

I will never be able to figure out exactly what people want out of this offense. When we are a ball control offense that dominates the time of possession an entire season, its not good enough. When we start passing down the field and risking turnovers to get big plays, its not good enough.

You can either come to terms with what we have and agree that it is impressive when we aren't turning the ball over or allowing multiple sacks per game......

Or you can say we suck and need to fire someone.....

I will always take the former. I enjoyed our offense much more last season but I think I can deal with the way things are heading. Once adjustments to the OLine scheme are made and we get some guys in there that can do their job it will be very fun to watch.

Jesus · 09-26-2011, 12:39 PM

Our two late trips into the redzone yesterday ended in FGs. There were dropped passes but we didn't take advantage of the defenses given to us. Against the Eagles we scored 2 late 4th qtr TDs one with a pass the other with a run. The pass was a throw to the back of the endzone over the defense. The run was an off tackle or outside by Turner (I may be wrong on the exact play but it was not Turner up the middle.)

TB dropped their secondary into the endzone freeing up everything underneath after we almost got a catch in the back of the endzone like against Philly. We should have tried at least one draw or shuffle pass. The underneath throw to Quizz is a good example of what we should have done but he is a rookie and we asked a lot of him to catch and get into the endzone there.

They expected pass and we should have run out of the spread or pass out of a tight formation on both of those tries. Which is what brings us to the drop. White played it perfect. He ran a curl or a short pass turned and waited for the pass. We need to run more of these as well as slants to beat the blitzes and preserve our QB. White should have caught it and walked into the endzone or put us inches away. We played smart taking what the D gave us but we didn't execute. Execution is the key. Cut out the mistakes and turnovers and we win.

JDaveG · 09-26-2011, 01:44 PM

(09-26-2011 12:24 PM)RnB Wrote: I see nothing wrong with it. It has been effective for the four years he has been here. Matt is smart enough to check out of bad plays. Our no huddle is spectacular. We did run some play action yesterday. Turner did get stuffed at the line a couple times. You can nitpick all you want but we have a solid team, a solid FO, and a solid coaching staff. If you are interested in the bigger picture, this is a great time to be a Falcons fan.

I don't disagree with any of that. I still think Mularkey's playcalling leaves a lot to be desired.

Quote:I definitely don't agree that our formations are lackluster. That is what MM is known for, varied formations. Are you honestly trying to tell me that the only time our offense is "creative" is when we are in a no huddle? Come on man, the same plays we run in the no huddle, we run OUTSIDE of it.

Yes, but instead of having someone read the defense and exploit matchups, too often when we aren't in the no huddle we end up trying to force square pegs in round holes. And I didn't say our formations are themselves lackluster -- I'm saying I can tell you what play is coming (run or pass) based on the formation. You can cut that any way you want, but when we line up heavy and never pass, it's easier to defend. Period.

Quote:I will never be able to figure out exactly what people want out of this offense. When we are a ball control offense that dominates the time of possession an entire season, its not good enough. When we start passing down the field and risking turnovers to get big plays, its not good enough.

You can either come to terms with what we have and agree that it is impressive when we aren't turning the ball over or allowing multiple sacks per game......

Or you can say we suck and need to fire someone.....

I will always take the former. I enjoyed our offense much more last season but I think I can deal with the way things are heading. Once adjustments to the OLine scheme are made and we get some guys in there that can do their job it will be very fun to watch.

On the TB game, I absolutely put more of it on execution than on scheme or coaching. But there were moments in that game where the playcalling was bad. I've already mentioned the one where we ran against a stacked box. The first two games were just horrific in that regard, and it gets old.

And I reject your false dichotomy. I don't think we suck, I just think we would be better with someone else calling the plays. Mularkey's scheme and playbook are both fine. His playcalling is a problem.

**Radical** · 09-26-2011, 01:55 PM

Concerning the no huddle, the reason that it's successful is inherently do to what makes the no huddle a viable strategy to begin with, not because it cuts the OC out of the play-calling.

You run no huddle, defenses can't substitute in players, they don't have a lot of time to do much more than basic play types, and this allows the QB read a defense that's having to play honest because it doesn't have time to call in more complicated and exotic types of plays.

The QB can line up, easily read the defense, and then get the ball out quickly. This only works to an extent though, because our no huddle scheme isn't designed to run an entire game. We can run it for a few drives, but then things will start to break down as the lack of diversity in your typical no huddle play selection is figured out.

RnB · 09-26-2011, 02:11 PM

We are on the same page JDave, just on different sides of the fence.

I see why MM can be criticized, perhaps justifiably so, but I believe he is a talented OC that can get us where we want to go. These last few years have been some of the most consistent in recent memory. If/when we start retooling the coaching staff or the front office, terrible things could happen; much more terrible than losing to the Bears or TB.

I will support TD, Smitty, BVG, and MM until I am blue in the face if it means we maintain a winning football team every season.

JDaveG · 09-26-2011, 02:36 PM

(09-26-2011 02:11 PM)RnB Wrote: We are on the same page JDave, just on different sides of the fence.

I see why MM can be criticized, perhaps justifiably so, but I believe he is a talented OC that can get us where we want to go. These last few years have been some of the most consistent in recent memory. If/when we start retooling the coaching staff or the front office, terrible things could happen; much more terrible than losing to the Bears or TB.

I will support TD, Smitty, BVG, and MM until I am blue in the face if it means we maintain a winning football team every season.

I figured we were. I don't "not support" Mularkey. If he'd get more creative with his playcalling, I'd be fine with him. Or if he'd let someone else call the plays, I'd be fine with him. History tells me neither is going to happen, but I don't just hate on the guy.

I see him much as I saw Dan Reeves when he was here. People used to say Reeves' offense didn't work, but that was never true. His offense worked great when it was working. But his offense didn't work at all when he couldn't execute his preferred game (heavy run, play action pass over the top). I see Mularkey in the same light, and the problem is, you can scheme to stop anyone's preferred game. It's a team's ability to beat you when their A game isn't working that I think makes champions, and I'm just not seeing that really out of Mularkey.

**Radical** · 09-26-2011, 02:39 PM

(09-26-2011 02:36 PM)JDaveG Wrote: A game isn't working that I think makes champions, and I'm just not seeing that really out of Mularkey.

I don't see any offense that can win when their offensive line is getting mauled like our line. Maybe if you have a QB like Roethlisberger, who is good for shaking off a DT or DE or two, but that's such a rare skill that you simply expect that from any QB.

JDaveG · 09-26-2011, 03:02 PM

(09-26-2011 02:39 PM)Radical Wrote: I don't see any offense that can win when their offensive line is getting mauled like our line. Maybe if you have a QB like Roethlisberger, who is good for shaking off a DT or DE or two, but that's such a rare skill that you simply expect that from any QB.

That may be right, but some of that comes down to scheme too. I've been saying since 2008 that Matt Ryan makes our o-line look WAY better than it really is. Remember, it's the same sorry o-line we had in 2007 and the next year they just looked like world beaters. That's a function of scheming around your deficiencies.

Maybe some of the folks calling for Mularkey to "take the training wheels off" for Ryan misunderstood who the training wheels were for in the first place. As I see it, we did a lot of dink and dunk to cover our deficiencies in the past. We're almost stubbornly trying to turn into a 7 step drop, everybody go deep vertical offense now and it clearly is not working.

Did you notice which plays were working in the 4th quarter to set up the long pass to Julio? The couple of series' prior we were hitting quick outs on the flat to Roddy and Julio. And our QB wasn't getting sacked. The defense started to roll out to defend them and lo and behold, we have a little bit of time for a deep post to Julio. Another example is the rush against Chicago -- they were killing us getting upfield. How do you beat that? RB screens to the outside. Did we run any? I don't remember if we did. It seems to me we don't do a good job of scheming around stuff like that.

Jesus · 09-26-2011, 03:14 PM

Most importantly is that Ryan has to hang on to the ball. He is going to get sacked, goes with the job but he doesn't need to put the ball on the ground every time he does. He has been sacked 13 times and fumbled and lost 3 balls. In his rookie year he fumbled 6 times and lost 4 the most of any time in his career. Take your hit, protect the ball then bounce up and make a play. You fumble the ball inside your own 20 on the first drive of the game that's gonna end up bad no matter how you shake it. We're lucky they didn't score there but you see what I'm saying.

According Pro Football Reference Ryan is leading the NFL in yards per attempt at 6.9 and yards per catch at 11.4.

**Radical** · 09-26-2011, 03:21 PM

(09-26-2011 03:14 PM)Jesus Wrote: Most importantly is that Ryan has to hang on to the ball. He is going to get sacked, goes with the job but he doesn't need to put the ball on the ground every time he does. He has been sacked 13 times and fumbled and lost 3 balls. In his rookie year he fumbled 6 times and lost 4 the most of any time in his career. Take your hit, protect the ball then bounce up and make a play. You fumble the ball inside your own 20 on the first drive of the game that's gonna end up bad no matter how you shake it. We're lucky they didn't score there but you see what I'm saying.

According Pro Football Reference Ryan is leading the NFL in yards per attempt at 6.9 and yards per catch at 11.4.

2008 - 6 fumbles, 1 lost. There's no way that he's leading the NFL in YPA with 6.9.