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ATLBound · 01-23-2012, 03:41 PM

Suffice to sat you don't place enough impact in coaches that are PAID to coach. And I'm pretty confident Nolan got a better contract than BVG did but I truly dont know.

Anywho on to your points. Change of scenery can do a lot of things for people. It's not just the DC, the scheme, the players around them, etc. It's also their personal lives, physical, mental. There are soooo many factors that could impact a players ability. Given that to consider the impact of a great DC as a very rare situation is exteenely false.

The problembis you're just looking at scheme. I'm not sure how you know BVG is a great teacher and motivator so I can't confirm or deny his skillset in that aspect. But I do know that when Nolan was leaving Miami the players spoke up for him and the fans. When BVG left we didn't hear that.

A great DC not only impacts the scheme, but your physical buolt, your mentality for your position, your will to fight and scrap. The 49ers went thru 2 head coaches with virtually the same team, Alex Smith went thru 7 or 8 OC and now finally he gets. Hmmmmm I wonder why....guess what? It was a coach. All he needed was a coach that knew how to get him playing the right way, an offensive minded coach with a QB's mind. Never ever underestimate the impact of a great coach that helps you click.

All those things you mentioned about change of scenery can happen right here. Scheme, coach, players (Grimes, Hayden may be gone), position on depth chart may change with these new cpaches coming in and giving opinions.

Lastly, BVG was decent, not successful by any means. Our whole team wasn't necessarily successful in terms of Super bowl. We made progress but if youre going strictly by stats and not the eye test, then I guess you believe our O-line was the 6th best in the NFL as well, since the stats say so.

Paprika Neck · 01-23-2012, 03:41 PM

Owens is TENACIOUS he has TENACITY i like guys like that. plus he can hit pretty good, i like the idea of 4 secondary players that will light your ass up given the chance.

RnB · 01-23-2012, 06:41 PM

ATLBound, I figured your next argument would be regarding how our defense will be a "change of scenery" similar to going to another team. Simply put, no it won't. The culture in the lockerroom will remain the same, it has been instilled in our players for four years now and Blank/TD/Smitty place very high emphasis on it. Mile Nolan himself said he would not be completely blowing up our defense but would focus on what our team does well. Owens didn't fit into that picture and still shouldn't.

No, I am not discounting what a good coach can do. What I am discounting is your insistence that our old coach sucked and that Owens is good. I disagree with both, have succinctly supported my position, and see nothing in your argument to change my opinion. I am not buying all these people coming in here and saying Owens can be a great DB based on him breaking up a couple passes and making a couple ST plays in the last few games of the season. I am afraid that all of yall are forgetting just how many terrible plays, blown coverages, and TDs Owens has given up throughout his career here. Is everyone also forgetting that Owens has been benched more than once or that we signed a FA specifically to replace him? I see no reason, based solely on a couple good plays very late in the season, to change my opinion of this guy.

FullMetalFalcon23 · 01-23-2012, 06:51 PM

(01-23-2012 06:41 PM)RnB Wrote: ATLBound, I figured your next argument would be regarding how our defense will be a "change of scenery" similar to going to another team. Simply put, no it won't. The culture in the lockerroom will remain the same, it has been instilled in our players for four years now and Blank/TD/Smitty place very high emphasis on it. Mile Nolan himself said he would not be completely blowing up our defense but would focus on what our team does well. Owens didn't fit into that picture and still shouldn't.

No, I am not discounting what a good coach can do. What I am discounting is your insistence that our old coach sucked and that Owens is good. I disagree with both, have succinctly supported my position, and see nothing in your argument to change my opinion. I am not buying all these people coming in here and saying Owens can be a great DB based on him breaking up a couple passes and making a couple ST plays in the last few games of the season. I am afraid that all of yall are forgetting just how many terrible plays, blown coverages, and TDs Owens has given up throughout his career here. Is everyone also forgetting that Owens has been benched more than once or that we signed a FA specifically to replace him? I see no reason, based solely on a couple good plays very late in the season, to change my opinion of this guy.

I don't think Owens can be great, but I believe he can be good and under the right coaching and scheme be put in the position to do his job right and well. Be one of the smaller cogs that helps the bigger cogs by not jamming up and breaking teeth. Some guys aren't meant to be standouts, but they can be recognised as quality producers.

I look at HD as this type of guy. He is once again a quality producer. However he could be a great slot receiver for us if allowed to.

ATLBound · 01-23-2012, 09:16 PM

When did anybody supporting the idea of keeping Owens mention great? When did I say that BVG sucked.

I specifically stated NB (nickelback) for Owens. I specifically stated that he could be serviceable. I said BVG was decent and I never said sucked....ever.

So I'm not sure where you're getting this from. Many of the supporters stated there were a few games at the end of the season where he showed progress.

This does not mean great or good or even decent. It means he showed progress in his 3rd year. There was an article talking about Grimes from PFW where the coaching staff eluded to the same exact thing about him and Franks.

We're not just talking about ST or the Giants game. There were games befote that where progress was shown. Like I said before...agree to disagree because I can't make you see what you don't see.

It's a shame how people expect you athletes to be perfect from the jump. Can't go thru any bumps and bruises or development at all. This guy had a bad year and a half and I thinl the fact that they came in some key moments made it worst then it was. That Packers game put him under the microscope and obviously some people can't get over it and blinded by it.

But guess what we signed 2 FA to take the place of Grimes at one point (Foxworth and Williams) and look how he turned out.

ATLBound · 01-23-2012, 09:19 PM

Oh I forgot one little tidbit...Grimes was also benched multiple times. Let's talk about people forgetting things. We have an example of an overcomer in this same lockerroom that is so set that every player will become stagnant and never have progression.

juraitwaluzka · 01-23-2012, 10:28 PM

(01-23-2012 03:03 PM)JDaveG Wrote: To be fair to Owens, being close enough to the receiver to commit PI is a vast improvement

lmao, that's a dose of painful truth right there.