Falcons: Owens could flourish under Mike Nolan

[DemBirds]

(01-20-2012 06:52 PM)RnB Wrote:  Fuck Owens.

I have the same opinion of him that I have of Baker, they are not players that we should keep due to their skills being completely sub par. These two guys have hurt us more than they have helped, by far. Yes, Owens is fast, but his coverage skills, awareness, and football IQ are bottom of the barrel. He is the single greatest liability within our secondary, even more prone to fuck ups than DeCoud.

I have never understood why there are so many fans that are so supportive of this guy.

Owens has all the physical tools, unlike Baker. You're completely off-base in that comparison. People want to root for him because he's an effort guy, when others gave up on those kick returns he didn't and ran them down and saved touchdowns. People root for guys like that. Any flaw in Owens' game is not on a physical level and can be coached up given the right coaches and the right work ethic by Owens.

This is coming from a guy that wanted him gone after Green Bay. I see his talent, I just hope it can be brought out and used properly.

Do we really want to give up on Owens after 3 years just like we did Houston? Who had by most accounts a pro bowl season in 2011?

[Falcons all the way!]

(01-20-2012 06:10 PM)ATLBound Wrote:  Woah there Hoss! Lol. Chill out dude. Some serious feelings going on here. Nobody said he was great...only that he showed some progress. Yeesh

I'm not here to get into a internet brawl with anyone especially Falcons fans as myself. But to insult someone because they look at things from a different angle is not the answer by far.

[Falcons all the way!]

(01-20-2012 06:52 PM)RnB Wrote:  Fuck Owens.

I have the same opinion of him that I have of Baker, they are not players that we should keep due to their skills being completely sub par. These two guys have hurt us more than they have helped, by far. Yes, Owens is fast, but his coverage skills, awareness, and football IQ are bottom of the barrel. He is the single greatest liability within our secondary, even more prone to fuck ups than DeCoud.

I have never understood why there are so many fans that are so supportive of this guy.

Agreed. I have no idea. We should want what's best for the team. Players like Peria Jerry, Thomas DeCoud, Sam Sackmakerbaker, Dunta Robinson and Owens has not been the answer so far. It's nothing wrong with supporting these guys especially for the Falcons sake and as fans we want these guys to be great. But the truth hurts those who don't want to hear it. These guys have not been panning out for this team.

[Falcons all the way!]

(01-20-2012 07:23 PM)papachaz Wrote:  i never ever said he was the next prime time. geesh..... but i do think he be decent backup on the outside, and definitely NOT inside ever again. and with that speed and physicality, dude should be on ST coverage. maybe give him a chance to run a few back.

so no, i don't think he should be our starter opposite of DRob next year. i'm not even sure i'd wanna keep DRob around either, if we hadn't upgraded the DC to a guy who is quoted saying he believes in using players to their strengths.

True. Just to let you know I didn't mean to come from a bad place. I just found you're comments little insulting because I agreed with another poster. But anyway what the hell back on the topic. Your right. Owens has the physical tools, speed and heart no doubt about it. It would be a pretty good idea if Owens was given the chance to return punts. But Owens can easily be replace based on what he has done for this team so far. If Mike Nolan can bring out more from this guy, I'm all for it. But as of right now I'm going to chilllax sit back and see what our new DC does about our secondary because basically he made it clear it needs to change.

[papachaz]

(01-21-2012 10:31 AM)Falcons all the way! Wrote:  Agreed. I have no idea. We should want what's best for the team. Players like Peria Jerry, Thomas DeCoud, Sam Sackmakerbaker, Dunta Robinson and Owens is not going to cut it. It's nothing wrong with supporting these guys especially for the Falcons sake and as fans we want these guys to be great. But the truth hurts those who don't want to hear it. These guys have not been panning out for this team.

you're absolutely right. these guys haven't exactly panned out.
Jerry never made it back to starting after the knee injury. I hated this choice as a first rounder, would have been ok in a later round, but not as our first round draft choice.

every one knows we reached for Baker. but, LT's were FLYING off the board and we had to have one! Neither I nor anyone else can say what would have happened if he'd stayed healthy. But i'll go so far as to say he would have NEVER developed into a GREAT left tackle. maybe he would have been more serviceable and not lost his starting LT spot to a guy who used to be a DLineman.

DeCoud - i have no idea what happened to him. It looked like we had some safties that were gonna be balls to the wall. He fell off. the competition with Coleman seemed to snap him out of it a little bit. I remember him sacking breesus on a blitz up the middle a few years ago....man what a hit. don't think i've seen him hit anyone like that since.

DRob - definitely hasn't been what I thought he would be, although DeSean Jackson might argue that. We way overpaid for him though.

ok, my summary on those guys. what's the common denominator???? poor coaching and DC scheme and playcalling. so now we have a guy who is absolutely one of the most well respected defensive minds in the country instead of a college guy. There have in the past been some flashes from each of those guys, so maybe they'll keep them around and see if Nolan can coach em up. so as a Falcons fan, i'm gonna root for their success under the new DC and whatever coaches we bring in.

if they get cut, well then i will root for their replacements.

edit to add: saying you were Beefs follower was in jest dude, it wasn't meant as an insult really. Beef actually has some pretty good football stuff to say. and he has some of the best pics in his sig on the whole board

[RnB]

(01-21-2012 02:24 AM)DemBirds Wrote:  Owens has all the physical tools, unlike Baker. You're completely off-base in that comparison. People want to root for him because he's an effort guy, when others gave up on those kick returns he didn't and ran them down and saved touchdowns. People root for guys like that. Any flaw in Owens' game is not on a physical level and can be coached up given the right coaches and the right work ethic by Owens.

This is coming from a guy that wanted him gone after Green Bay. I see his talent, I just hope it can be brought out and used properly.

Do we really want to give up on Owens after 3 years just like we did Houston? Who had by most accounts a pro bowl season in 2011?

Look, I was impressed by his hustle on those long ST stops late in the season too. He is part of our team and I will always hope that he makes a miraculous turnaround and starts beasting for us. The fact remains, however, he probably single-handedly lost us at least one game, if not more (and the same can be said for the season before), last season due to his coverage. While we are at it, why don't we start more players that can fuck up so badly, so quickly, and do so over several seasons, so that it results in the opposing team getting a free 14 points. No thank you.

Are you really going to play the Houston card? They guy who got gifted the majority of his picks last season and got burnt, as per usual, repeatedly? Hell, he even got burnt by US a few times. The same guy who has "all the physical tools" but simply could not even learn to get his head turned around after multiple years? Give me a break. Just because they outperform other lousy players once we trade them, doesn't mean they aren't lousy themselves.

[Falcons all the way!]

(01-21-2012 11:33 AM)papachaz Wrote:  you're absolutely right. these guys haven't exactly panned out.
Jerry never made it back to starting after the knee injury. I hated this choice as a first rounder, would have been ok in a later round, but not as our first round draft choice.

every one knows we reached for Baker. but, LT's were FLYING off the board and we had to have one! Neither I nor anyone else can say what would have happened if he'd stayed healthy. But i'll go so far as to say he would have NEVER developed into a GREAT left tackle. maybe he would have been more serviceable and not lost his starting LT spot to a guy who used to be a DLineman.

DeCoud - i have no idea what happened to him. It looked like we had some safties that were gonna be balls to the wall. He fell off. the competition with Coleman seemed to snap him out of it a little bit. I remember him sacking breesus on a blitz up the middle a few years ago....man what a hit. don't think i've seen him hit anyone like that since.

DRob - definitely hasn't been what I thought he would be, although DeSean Jackson might argue that. We way overpaid for him though.

ok, my summary on those guys. what's the common denominator???? poor coaching and DC scheme and playcalling. so now we have a guy who is absolutely one of the most well respected defensive minds in the country instead of a college guy. There have in the past been some flashes from each of those guys, so maybe they'll keep them around and see if Nolan can coach em up. so as a Falcons fan, i'm gonna root for their success under the new DC and whatever coaches we bring in.

if they get cut, well then i will root for their replacements.

edit to add: saying you were Beefs follower was in jest dude, it wasn't meant as an insult really. Beef actually has some pretty good football stuff to say. and he has some of the best pics in his sig on the whole board

It's all good. +1

[pauliwood]

LINK

(01-21-2012 11:58 AM) Wrote:  Chris Owens was not—is not—a popular man in Atlanta.

There are many reasons for that, most of them having to do with Owens' propensity for coverage mistakes. When the Falcons selected him in 2008, Owens was a promising, speedy young cornerback with some upside. Through the first couple of years, that narrative mostly stood, and he totally outdueled Terrell Owens in 2009 for an impressive interception. The kid was going places.

There were little things that began to add up in 2010—a bad angle, not turning his head for the ball, a whiffed tackle—and Owens started to get a reputation. That reputation was sealed in carbonite in the Green Bay Packers game, when Owens was unquestionably bad in coverage. The Packers scored on him early and often, and he earned himself a -3.5 from Pro Football Focus for the game.

That was basically it for Owens. I noticed that each time I said something nice about Owens on Twitter this season, I got two types of responses:

Owens sucks!
Sure, that play was pretty good, but Owens still sucks!

Atlanta is not alone in its pillorying of players who have bad moments. As a native New Englander, I can tell you that Bill Buckner earned about 20 years of enmity for one bad play, a bad play that never would've happened if his manager had been smarter. And while the scale and the venom are not the same, Owens was essentially undone by his performance against the Green Bay Packers.

It takes a certain inner reserve to keep battling when the entire world seems to expect you to fail. A lot of athletes have it, so I'm not exactly arguing that Owens is unique. But after what was, in essence, one terrible game, Owens had to deal with an enormous amount of vitriol and doubt coming his way.

Ultimately, I thought he acquitted himself well in 2011, despite a few gaffes. His two spectacular special teams tackles saved touchdowns, and he's continued to grow as a cover corner. A bit miscast in BVG's particular brand of zone defense, Owens will probably be a better fit for the tighter schemes Mike Nolan deploys because he can fly and can hit, though his tackling could still get better. It's not impossible to envision him starting outside in 2012 if Brent Grimes heads elsewhere in free agency, frankly, and it's not impossible to imagine that he might do pretty well.

I'll open up the can of worms now. What do you think of Chris Owens as a player?

[Beef]

(01-20-2012 02:34 PM)atljbo Wrote:  Dude its a PI or not .... If the Ref said its not a PI .. Its not a PI.

I dont get why when some dont like a guy they say what something could have been.... It wasnt

I'm not saying like Owens or dont like Owens... Im just saying dont use "should have" or "could have" ... If you feel like he sucks.. He sucks.. If you think he showed signs of progression.. He showed signs of progression.

JBO I luv ya and you're the last person I would choose to get in a debate with because of the respect factor, but come on man, really?

Your attitude here suggests you believe the refs never make mistakes and that they're perfect. Which we all know is a crock of shit, including you. So why in this case is it wrong to apply the eyeball test when there's a dozen threads in these forums where the eyeball test allowed us to complain about the refs calls or no-calls?

Either way, I know what I saw in that Giants game. Owens was raping the receivers from behind and I was absolutely AMAZED they didn't call him for PI both times. To my eyes, it looked exactly like the previous year in GB except this time he got away with it. And if nothing else, that's on the refs because they've flat out sucked ass all year long with bad calls/no-calls. But I know that in the vast majority of cases, anyone who does what he did is going to get called for PI.

Owens is just not good in coverage, period. Him running down 2 KR's for game saving tackles on ST makes me appreciate the guy on ST's, but it does not make me want him as my starting CB/NB because if he plays 16 regular season games like he did vs. the Giants, he's going to get called for PI more times than not and cost us big plays.

I don't hate the guy, I just don't think he's earned a pass. But stop with the double-standard on selective use of the eyeball test and when we can and can't apply bad ref calls to a situation.

[RnB]

The guy who wrote that article is delusional if he thinks Owens had a stellar year in 2009. He is also exaggerating when he says the stigma comes from one bad game against GB and by classifying the gaffes as "a few".

Yes, everyone knows Owens made a couple ST tackles late in the season. Yes, everyone knows he is a fast guy with good athleticism.

NO, THOSE THINGS DO NOT MAKE UP FOR HIS PATHETIC SKILLS THE PAST TWO YEARS. NO, I DON'T WANT HIM ON OUR TEAM AND DO NOT THINK HE WILL BE A WORTHY STARTING CB NEXT SEASON, NO MATTER WHO COACHES HIM.

Hopefully that is clear enough. I have said my piece and can only scratch my head at all of these people who think Owens is a good player and deserves a pass. I disagree, and can not fathom why you think so highly of him or why you want to keep this trash on our team. I don't care if he stays on the team as a ST guy but he better be dead last on the depth chart as a DB and riding the bench whenever our defense is on the field. Fuck Owens.