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BC Fan · 12-21-2010, 02:02 AM

I'm as biased toward Matt Ryan as could be and I still wouldn't put him into the category of elite yet. No QB is elite until they've won in the playoffs. But I doubt I've seen a 3rd year QB as accomplished as Ryan without doing that. A pretty unique package of character and talent.

Whatever happens, when I watched Ryan at BC I always said what made him great was his ability to play better when the pressure was most intense. Ryan was born to win a Super Bowl. I don't know if it will happen this year, but it will.

FullMetalFalcon23 · 12-21-2010, 05:43 AM

(12-21-2010 02:02 AM)BC Fan Wrote: I'm as biased toward Matt Ryan as could be and I still wouldn't put him into the category of elite yet. No QB is elite until they've won in the playoffs. But I doubt I've seen a 3rd year QB as accomplished as Ryan without doing that. A pretty unique package of character and talent.

Whatever happens, when I watched Ryan at BC I always said what made him great was his ability to play better when the pressure was most intense. Ryan was born to win a Super Bowl. I don't know if it will happen this year, but it will.

I really disagree with that statement. There are a lot of QB's who stumbled off into playoff wins. E.g. MARK SANCHEZ.... That guy will be in his 3rd year next year and he has not yet had a year comparable to Matt Ryan. But because he has "playoff wins" he is closer to being elite? Some how I do not think so.

Where I will agree with you is that consistent playoff success and at least a Superbowl appearance can constitute tangible benchmarks for charting progress towards elite.

**Tandy** · (This post was last modified: 12-21-2010 06:32 AM by Tandy.)

(12-21-2010 01:05 AM)Swift Is a Die Hard Wrote: Your memory is short lived then if you cant remember
08' Tampa game Ryan was pretty bad but Turner carried us on his back to a important win think he ran for over 150+ yards ...Not sure if you remember or were a fan in 08'

09' Wash game ... Turner on his back ..

THINK WE ARE 16-1 WHEN TURNER RUNS FOR 100 YARDS

So as much as you want to put Ryan into that ELITE status he simply he not , there is a thing about being a flat out homer and being realistic coop . Ryan is special and he has a chance to be a elite and GREAT but at this moment he just is not that yet

and Ryan is not in top 5 in any Category .. Passer Rating/TDS/ Yards .
again how is Ryan elite when he also has not lead us to any playoff wins ..

Im the same dude that didnt put Brees in top tier cause he only won 1 up until last years run
I would put Ryan with the next group of QBS ..

Brady
Manning
Brees
Rivers
Big Ben ..

next level ...if someone is to say Eli Manning is a better QB then Ryan is how can you not argue he isnt ? Manning help lead Giants to a Bowl..
I think Ryan is better then Flacco but Flacco has help lead his Ravens to some playoff wins ..Flacco needs to take next step in development .

Aaron Rodgers is a better QB then Ryan imo ...looks and stats ..but he needs to take next step to be considered elite

For the record - Falcons are =

17-2 when Turner rushes for 100 yards (89.5%)
12-9 when Turner rushes for less than 100 yards (57.1%)
5-3 when Turner doesn't start (62.5%)

13-0 when Ryan has a QB rating of 100 or over (100%)
17-10 when Ryan has a QB rating of less than 100 (62.9%)
0-2 when Ryan doesn't start (0%)

Your opinions are noted and are as valuable as everyone elses - but the facts do not indicate that Turner is more valuable than Ryan. We still have a winning record with or without Turner - we do not without Ryan. We do not lose when Ryan has a QB rating above 100 - we have lost when Turner has rushed for over 100. I love Turner and I happen to think he's elite as well - but the facts do not bear out that Turner is more valuable to the team than Ryan. I believe they are equally important personally, and are both Falcons. What they do complements the other and they work together as a team as they should. But, make no mistake - to a man on the team they would agree - Ryan is the leader of this team - not Turner.

Bottom line - our team is a team.

Our QB is our QB so whether you guys appreciate or like what he gives us - you are going to have to learn to accept him as our QB.

You don't have to think he's all that - but he's ours - he is the face of the Falcons. He is a Falcon.

When you undermine the clear leader of the team - you undermine the Falcons. Just sayin'

Matt Ryan is in the top 2 in the most important stat of all - Most wins.

He is tied for the most wins at home as a starter in the league with 19-1 (with Danny White). If we win Monday night with Ryan as the starter - he will own the record in the NFL since the merger.

He is in 2nd place for most wins by a starter in the NFL in their first 3 years. Marino holds the record by 1 win. If we win our last 2 games - he will hold the NFL record for that.

As for the great stats you speak of ... He is

#1 in wins provided per year in the league with an average of 11 through this game

#2 in winning percentage overall in his career with 73.73% behind only Brady

#11 in completion % with 62.7 - above Big Ben on your elite list.

#11 in yards with 3321 - above Big Ben on your elite list and above Aaron Rodgers.

#6 in TDs with 25 - above Big Ben and above Aaron Rodgers.

#11 in least interceptions thrown - above Rivers, Rodgers, P Manning, E Manning and Brees

#5 in passing first downs - above E Manning, Brady, Rodgers and Big Ben

#13 in rating - above E Manning

#2 in 3rd down conversion % - above all but Brees

#1 in 4th down conversion % - above all

For all you calling people Homers who say Ryan is elite - the last time I looked - the article was written by Pat Y., who has not ever been a Falcons homer - ever.

By the way - the playoff win argument is as lame as any I've ever heard. The man has played 2 full years - taken us to the playoffs in his rookie year - and lost on the road.

He has also managed to get us to the playoffs twice now with a clinch this past Sunday. He hasn't played that game yet - but all of you are predetermining that he can't win a playoff game.

Do you even understand how asinine that whole argument is?

I for one, believe that if we had been healthier last year - he would have led us to playoffs then as well.

Remember folks, in our first 42 years, we made the playoffs 8 times. Ryan has now achieved getting us there in his first 3 years.

In our first 45 years, we only won a playoff game 6 times. I believe Ryan will have that number beat before his 6th year!

Swift Is a Die Hard · 12-21-2010, 08:56 AM

Go back and look at the games Tandy that Ryan 100, QB rating im willing to bet that most of the games are where Turner ran for over 100 yards ..Its a double edge sword it works both ways .. The QB opens up the field for the running game and the running game opens up the play action and loads the box . As for most part we relied on Turner more then Ryan ..WE ARE STILL A RUN TEAM FIRST ..No one is saying Turner is the leader our QB is the leader that is in most NFL franchise the QB is supposed to be a leader. Who is saying Ryan aint a leader please dont misinterpret my words please ..Turner is just as valuable imo
17-2 loss shows that and the other 1 loss came in the game where Turner had 100 yards rushing in first half then was injured in car game if memory serves correct

How is the playoff win argument assine is beyond me ..Lets wait and see how Ryan performs in playoffs before we put him in elite. Flacco right now has more playoff wins and SIMILAR STATS so then he is ELITE ? cmon man .. Now most homers will say well the Ravens defense helped Flacco get him those wins and those are the words of a homer and not a realistic fan ... same can be said with Eli Manning his defense lead him in playoffs but Manning stepped up in clutch time and made some throws..

LIKE I SAID THE ELITE QBS IN LEAGUE - LETS KEEP UP

1)Brady ...................stats & super bowl
2)Manning................stats & super bowl
3)Brees ....................stats & super bowl
4)Big Ben ....................stats & super bowl
5)Rivers ......................stats & wins & playoff wins ..

Now how can you put Ryan in that group based on so far his production when im not even putting Eli Manning in elite group when he has stats & super bowl and playoff wins ..Eli Manning is in the next level below where Ryan is and where Rodgers is

Lets be real and put those realistic glasses on most NFL analyst/scouts would take Aaron Rodgers over Ryan as well He has all the physical tools and intangibles ..

next level of QBS

Eli Manning
Rodgers
Ryan
Flacco
Vick .....shit Vick lead us to a couple of playoff wins ...he has the wins as well
he lead us to playoffs 2 of his first 3 years STARTING ...was he ELITE ? F NO

Then there are QBS who put up meaningless numbers/stats

Schaub
Cutler

***Peyton*** · 12-21-2010, 09:10 AM

We've created an argument over semantics here.

We can all agree that we are glad we have this guy as our QB right?

Other than that, I don't see where the labels are all that important.

Swift Is a Die Hard · 12-21-2010, 09:18 AM

Matt Ryan 100..QB rating games 13 of them LETS TAKE A LOOK AT Turner performance shall we

Turners performances in Ryan 100 QB rating games

08' Det game 222 yards 2 tds by Turner
08' KC game 104 yards 3 tds by Turner
08' Chi game. 54 yards 0 tds by Turner...
08' Oak game 139 yards 0 tds by Turner
08' NO game 96 yards 1 td by Turner
08' SD game 120 yards 0 td by Turner
09' Car game 105 yards 1 td by Turner
09' SF game 97 yards 3 tds by Turner
09' Buf game .............Turner did not play
10' Arz game 9 carries 75 yards 0 tds by Turner (but Jason Snelling 129 yards 2 tds)
10' NO game 114 yards 1 td by Turner
10' Cincy game 121 yards 2 tds by Turner
10' Bal game 39 yards 0 tds by Turner
10' St Louis game 131 yards 1 td by Turner
10 GB game 110 yards 1 td by Turner//

SO LETS BE HONEST NO COINCIDENCE THAT IN Ryan best games Turner was a MAJOR FACTOR ALL BUT 2

**Tandy** · (This post was last modified: 12-21-2010 09:54 AM by Tandy.)

(12-21-2010 08:56 AM)Swift Is a Die Hard Wrote: Go back and look at the games Tandy that Ryan 100, QB rating im willing to bet that most of the games are where Turner ran for over 100 yards ..Its a double edge sword it works both ways .. The QB opens up the field for the running game and the running game opens up the play action and loads the box . As for most part we relied on Turner more then Ryan ..WE ARE STILL A RUN TEAM FIRST ..No one is saying Turner is the leader our QB is the leader that is in most NFL franchise the QB is supposed to be a leader. Who is saying Ryan aint a leader please dont misinterpret my words please ..Turner is just as valuable imo
17-2 loss shows that and the other 1 loss came in the game where Turner had 100 yards rushing in first half then was injured in car game if memory serves correct

How is the playoff win argument assine is beyond me ..Lets wait and see how Ryan performs in playoffs before we put him in elite. Flacco right now has more playoff wins and SIMILAR STATS so then he is ELITE ? cmon man .. Now most homers will say well the Ravens defense helped Flacco get him those wins and those are the words of a homer and not a realistic fan ... same can be said with Eli Manning his defense lead him in playoffs but Manning stepped up in clutch time and made some throws..

LIKE I SAID THE ELITE QBS IN LEAGUE - LETS KEEP UP

1)Brady ...................stats & super bowl
2)Manning................stats & super bowl
3)Brees ....................stats & super bowl
4)Big Ben ....................stats & super bowl
5)Rivers ......................stats & wins & playoff wins ..

Now how can you put Ryan in that group based on so far his production when im not even putting Eli Manning in elite group when he has stats & super bowl and playoff wins ..Eli Manning is in the next level below where Ryan is and where Rodgers is

Lets be real and put those realistic glasses on most NFL analyst/scouts would take Aaron Rodgers over Ryan as well He has all the physical tools and intangibles ..

next level of QBS

Eli Manning
Rodgers
Ryan
Flacco
Vick .....shit Vick lead us to a couple of playoff wins ...he has the wins as well
he lead us to playoffs 2 of his first 3 years STARTING ...was he ELITE ? F NO

Then there are QBS who put up meaningless numbers/stats

Schaub
Cutler

Run first team? Really?

Total Offensive Yards: 4891

Rushing yards = 1717 (35.1%)
Passing yards = 3174 (64.9%)

Touchdowns by Rushing and Passing: 38

Rushing TDs = 13 (34.2%)
Passing TDs = 25 (68.4%)

First Downs by rushing and passing: 280

Well, since I made it clear it was a team effort - not sure what your argument was there - but as for playoffs.

Yes - it's asinine. Ryan is in his 3rd year and has gotten us to the playoffs 2 times in those 3 years. No other QB we have ever had did that by his 3rd year as Quarterback - none. No other QB has ever given us back to back to back winning seasons - none.

As for your reference to the great job Flacco did????

Flacco - what were his stats in the 3 big playoff games he won:
24 of 55 for 43.6% completions and 330 yds for 6 ypa with 1 TD and 1 INT
1/1 330 yds and 61.9 QB rating.

The playoff game he won last year: 4 of 10 for 40% and 34 yds for 3.4 ypa with 0 TD and 1 Int and a QB rating of 10

He really contributed there - huh?

Bottom line - you are entitled to your opinion - but regardless of your intent, your posts are directly using stats to undermine any accomplishments our QB has made and there are statements which are not accurate - that is why I replied - not to stop you from feeling any way you want. You're going to do that regardless of the stats.

I'm not sure what it is that seems to cause so much emotion in some of our fans whenever a sports analyst comes up with something good to say about our QB - but it is an odd phenomenon that seems to be Falcon related.

Maybe you guys should stop trying to be such "realists" and try being a fan every now and then.

PS - there was an article on NFL.com not long ago with the surprising news that most of those teams would take Ryan over all the other young starters. They presented the article with surprise and our fans took offense - of course - because they are a bunch of realists - better to tear your players down than God Forbid look like a homer!

One more note to all of you guys - I don't care what you think about Ryan - I was simply posting an article from Pat Y. and suddenly everyone has their great opinions on what is elite or not. Since there is no set of specified criteria for being an "elite" QB and everyone has their own ideas - feel free to think what you want. It was posted for you to read - not to get everyone incensed over it. It doesn't mean you have to believe he is elite - it's only an article.

(12-21-2010 09:10 AM)Peyton Wrote: We've created an argument over semantics here.

We can all agree that we are glad we have this guy as our QB right?

Other than that, I don't see where the labels are all that important.

It's disgraceful to dare say Ryan is better than average around our fans. I've never seen anything like it in any other fan base.

***Peyton*** · 12-21-2010, 09:58 AM

(12-21-2010 09:45 AM)Tandy Wrote: It's disgraceful to dare say Ryan is better than average around our fans. I've never seen anything like it in any other fan base.

Well there is a sweet irony with some of them, and I'm definitely not talking about Swift when I say this.

When people used to point out Vick's statistical shortcomings, people, myself included, would retort "all the guy does is win games".

Some of those same people won't seem to accept the same logic for Matt Ryan.

So....it's interesting.

The guy is going to end the season with as many wins in his first 3 seasons as any QB that ever played.....and he took over for a QB for a franchise that was believed to be dead and buried.

Swift Is a Die Hard · 12-21-2010, 10:43 AM

(12-21-2010 09:45 AM)Tandy Wrote: Run first team? Really?

Total Offensive Yards: 4891

Rushing yards = 1717 (35.1%)
Passing yards = 3174 (64.9%)

Touchdowns by Rushing and Passing: 38

Rushing TDs = 13 (34.2%)
Passing TDs = 25 (68.4%)

First Downs by rushing and passing: 280

I dont know if this was a joke or not but im pretty sure in most cases around the league and in the game of football the QB will rack up more yards and tds then the rb .. You should try to equate those numbers into a solution where it ranks among the league ..so while we might have passed for a certain amount of yards where does it rank among

How about these numbers

5th in RUSHING ATTEMPTS PER GAME - 31.6
7th in rushing yards - 122.6
5th in rushing first downs per game 7.3

Passing numbers

10th in Passing attempts per game -36.4
14th in Passing yards per game -226
8th in Passing first downs per game 12.7

Those are numbers put into a equation .. and it shows that WE ARE STILL as run first team that bases are game off the run .. We have all heard Smith/Mularkley say this is our PHILOSOPHY ..

Again no one is saying Ryan is just a above avg QB he is far from that he is a very good QB imo that is a winner lets wait a lil to he leads us to playoff wins to put him in that elite category cause imo he just is not there yet but will be soon

**Tandy** · (This post was last modified: 12-21-2010 10:52 AM by Tandy.)

(12-21-2010 10:43 AM)Swift Is a Die Hard Wrote: I dont know if this was a joke or not but im pretty sure in most cases around the league and in the game of football the QB will rack up more yards and tds then the rb .. You should try to equate those numbers into a solution where it ranks among the league ..so while we might have passed for a certain amount of yards where does it rank among

How about these numbers

5th in RUSHING ATTEMPTS PER GAME - 31.6
7th in rushing yards - 122.6
5th in rushing first downs per game 7.3

Passing numbers

10th in Passing attempts per game -36.4
14th in Passing yards per game -226
8th in Passing first downs per game 12.7

Those are numbers put into a equation .. and it shows that WE ARE STILL as run first team that bases are game off the run .. We have all heard Smith/Mularkley say this is our PHILOSOPHY ..

Again no one is saying Ryan is just a above avg QB he is far from that he is a very good QB imo that is a winner lets wait a lil to he leads us to playoff wins to put him in that elite category cause imo he just is not there yet but will be soon

Okay Swift - I know you understand football and balance better than this - so I'm going to drop this conversation right now.

Obviously - you want to say that Ryan is no good without Turner - that he is not elite - fine. That's your opinion and I respect that.