Do you think we should draft a DB early ? and do you trust TD and his scouting of one

[Swift Is a Die Hard]

Radical - we do rotate de now

Davis
Bierman
Andersdon 50/50
Abe

Also on the bench is a prospect that TD drafted in Sidbury as well that really hasnt seen the field..The smart thing for TD to do is bring in a veteran pass rusher once CBA is cleared ..This will allow Bierman /Sidbury still to grow and develop as the prospects TD thought they would be ..Not really that complicated

DE-ABE
DE- Vet (FA)

Now we do sub in our dline and give Abe and OUR VETERAN pass rusher a rest with young guys Bierman /Sidbury


Now if we SPEND 27# PICK ON DE

That draft pick should be a starter or by YEAR 2 be a starter ..so that means we will go into next season as Bierman & ROOKIE DE as our dline unless Bierman doesnt develop and we go out in free agency and get a free agent DE or reisgn Abe short term for 2 years possible move

[atljbo]

(04-21-2011 03:22 PM)Swift Is a Die Hard Wrote:  do I have to take you to school again Radical..its getting beyond silly


Giants won a superbowl on the back of there pass rushers..Osi/Strahan/Tuck

Giants drafted Tuck knowing Strahan is on his last leg and retirement coming soon. They would slide Osi to Strahan rush end and have Tuck at the other end

Now they see Osi coming off injuries and soon to be free agency they went ahead and drafted Jason Paul... so the future of Giants oline will be Paul and Tuck

What about Mathias Kiwanuka... Osi just had a 10+ sack season... Strahan had a 10+ sack season... They was developing Tuck.... Then they draft Mathias Kiwanuka... They knew Strahan was going but they also recognize pass rushers is a must... They will always stay 3 or 4 deep in pass rushers.

Heck Osi and Tuck had 10+ sacks and JPP had like 4 or 4.5 sacks and Perry Fewell said they missed Mathias Kiwanuka A LOT (dude had 4 sacks in 3 games) .

My point is with the rotation we run (like the giants) ... The snaps will be there... This is a passing league.. So you need pass rushers on 1st,2nd, and 3rd downs

[cooperbh]

(04-21-2011 03:22 PM)jddurden Wrote:  TD never drafts a CB early. He has only drafted one in the second round since 2003. Here's a breakdown:

2003 Eugene Wilson 2nd round 9 ints between 03-05
2003 Asante Samuel 4th round 16 ints between 03-06
2004 Christian Morton 7th round
2005 Ellis Hobbs 3rd round 9 ints 05-08
2006 Willie Andrews 7th round
2007 Mike Richardson 6th round

He joined Atlanta in 2008 and we know the draft history here.
TD knows you can find value at CB later in the draft, and sometimes they bust, but he never ties up to much money either way.

Good info. I'll just add that Samuel and Hobbs didn't become starters until their third seasons and Samuel didn't break out until his fourth, when he collected 10 of those 16 INTs you referenced. Wonder how many Pats fans were constantly complaining about their GM "shitting the bed" when it came to picking CBs before the start of the 2006 season?

[Swift Is a Die Hard]

Kiwi also played lB for Giants they moved him back to end after Osi injury . I think Giants stock piled dline (Pierre Paul pick)cause they knew how valuable it was for Super Bowl run but also had a plan in motion cause of the eventual retirement of Strahan they knew they have 1 proven pass rusher in Osi so they could look to find another young stud like Tuck. I don't think were in same boat as Giants cause we don't have proven pass rusher outside Abe


Atljbo - I have no Beef with getting a pass rusher . I just prefer it to be a veteran pass rusher then spending 1st round pick on one . By doing that it brings In a proven commodity . 2) what I feel you spend a 1st round pick on a player I feel they should be starting or see bulk of the action . My concerns are that if we spend a 1st round pick on DE that would stunt the growth of Bierman and Sidbury and mind you on our bench we have a player that TD gave 4 year 20 million dollar contract in Chauncey Davis that hasn't panned out as planned

[atljbo]

(04-21-2011 03:54 PM)Swift Is a Die Hard Wrote:  Atljbo - I have no Beef with getting a pass rusher . I just prefer it to be a veteran pass rusher then spending 1st round pick on one . By doing that it brings In a proven commodity . 2) what I feel you spend a 1st round pick on a player I feel they should be starting or see bulk of the action . My concerns are that if we spend a 1st round pick on DE that would stunt the growth of Bierman and Sidbury and mind you on our bench we have a player that TD gave 4 year 20 million dollar contract in Chauncey Davis that hasn't panned out as planned

I get that... I'm with you ... The problem is... As of now.. you dont know whats going to happen with FA... You dont know what rules we will go by.. So those DE's that can help us possibly will not be out there in FA.

I see us easing JA98 and Davis out in the next year or 2... Also... We have soooooooo many potential FA coming up (including Biermann) ... The best strategy may be to draft a DE ... He has to be a guy you think will produce plus he will have a money friendly contract (compared to a costly vet) .

I'm with you.. I agree that a FA DE is whats best... The problem is that we dont know what we will have in FA.

I can see Pro's and Con's on both sides... Thats why i want to see how TD approach this.

Also with Kiwi.. He sucked at LB (only did that his rookie year to get him on the field) ... They always rushed him at DE in a rotation (even when he was playing some LB) ... That was always his real position.

The whole point of your argument is that the snaps will not be there to continue to develop Biermann and Sid... I think the snaps will be there regardless rather we draft a rookie or vet... Bringing in a DE that can rush as a DT also is a MAJOR plus...

[DawnOfThemBirds]

I believe that we should just get a DE in free agency. I fill confident that we will be able sign either Ray Edwards or Mathias Kiwanuka.

[Beef]

(04-21-2011 03:54 PM)Swift Is a Die Hard Wrote:  Atljbo - I have no Beef ...

This is one of the only correct things you've ever said on these forums.

[Radical]

(04-21-2011 03:22 PM)Swift Is a Die Hard Wrote:  do I have to take you to school again Radical..its getting beyond silly


Giants won a superbowl on the back of there pass rushers..Osi/Strahan/Tuck...Tuck was also playing 3 positions on that DLINE ( If you followed around the NFL you would know that)

Giants drafted Tuck knowing Strahan is on his last leg and retirement coming soon. They would slide Osi to Strahan rush end and have Tuck at the other end

Now they see Osi coming off injuries and soon to be free agency they went ahead and drafted Jason Paul... so the future of Giants oline will be Paul and Tuck

So let me get this straight.

Strahan is getting older...

They draft Osi Umenyiora in 2003.

In 2005, with two great pass rushers they then draft Justin Tuck.

Now with one older DE and 2 great DEs on hand, they draft Mathias Kiwanuka in 2006.

Now they have an old, but still great DE in Strahan, a great DE in Osi Umenyiora, a great DE in rotation in Justin Tuck, and they've drafted Mathias Kiwanuka. I don't think they were giving up on Tuck, and even if they were prepping for Stahan's retirement, that's still going to be 3 top tier DEs on the roster.

Now, with Stahan gone and still a staple of 3 good DEs available, they go out and draft Jason Pierre-Paul.

Yet because we got Abraham, who is getting up there in age(though no signs of play dropping off), Kroy Biermann who is looking to be a good DE on the opposite end, and Sidbury who is mostly a question mark at this point, it would be "giving up" on Kroy if we were to pursue another DE in the draft?

GTFO.

Of course, you still think us drafting Corey Peters in the 3rd was "proof" that TD was "admitting he made a mistake" drafting Peria Jerry. What a joke.

[Radical]

(04-21-2011 03:54 PM)Swift Is a Die Hard Wrote:  TD gave 4 year 20 million dollar contract in Chauncey Davis that hasn't panned out as planned

You mean a 4 year, 16 million dollar contract with most of it not even guaranteed, to a run defense specialist with some pass rushing capability?

Oh lordy, what a fuck up.

[Swift Is a Die Hard]

(04-21-2011 06:57 PM)Radical Wrote:  Now, with Stahan gone and still a staple of 3 good DEs available, they go out and draft Jason Pierre-Paul.

Keep up

They draft Pierre Paul cause Osi wanted out and Kiwi is set to be a free agent


not that hard ..