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Aftermath · 02-26-2013, 08:01 PM

(02-26-2013 07:47 PM)ATLBound Wrote: If there is any place I want us to get younger at, its the defense. Some of the integral parts of our defense is older....much more than our offense. The defense isnt going to become great overnight so get young energetic guys in the draft that will grow. Matt Ryan will have the offense sustained which makes it easier to maintain at a good enough level to win but that defense needs to get young quick, not the offense.

Players over 30 or damn near on the defense:
Samuels
Robinson
Abe
Babs
Nicholas

Thats 5 starters. As opposed to our offense:
Roddy
Tony G
Blalock
Clabo

Thats 4 starters. If there is any place we should not get older FA's, then its the defense. Thats almost half the defense and O-lineman generally have longer careers than do D-linemen or corners. Lb's can have long careers.

I agree completely, our D is getting old as fuck and it is going to start to cost us (I think it has already) If we did bring in a vet I'd prefer SJ over Freeney and Osi for that very reason. We can't keep adding more age to an aging defense, that's a recipe for disaster. At the same time we aren't likely to get a guy at 30 that will come in a have an instant impact on defense unless we draft a LB. If we spend money on a FA RB & TE (TG & SJ) it would be tantamount in my mind to saying "fuck it, can't improve the D this year, lets just try to outscore everyone" I wouldn't really mind that approach except we have the wrong HC to pull it off.

ATLBound · 02-26-2013, 08:04 PM

(02-26-2013 07:52 PM)Aftermath Wrote: its a RB, not a QB or a WR, if you are going to get the most value out of a RB it is going to happen in their first few seasons. If we are going to draft a RB this year there is absolutely no need to bring in a FA RB. Not only would you be wasting a pick on a RB but money on a FA as well, all the while the D stands neglected. That doesn't include the 2M in cap we will still lose from cutting Turner.

I view it as a move of desperation because those resources could be much better spent on other players at other positions that are not only a more pressing need but will also continue to provide value well into the future. If we are going to sign a FA RB we would be better of asking Turner to sign a cap friendly contract, he know that he won't get much in FA so he would be inclined to work with us.

When it comes to value and building a winning team FA is absolutely the worst place to find a RB. Take into the fact that you are talking about a RB that will turn 0 before the season starts and has only played a full season 3 times in his career you are just begging to get bit. If we are going to put any money into the offense via FA would would be better off directing it towards the offensive line. If you have a good O line it doesn't matter who you have a RB. We don't need a pro bowler, we just need someone that can get 800+ yards on the ground and 400 yards through the air. RB is arguably the easiest position to hit on late in the draft and they can start day 1 and have an immediate impact.

Going by traditional standards you are correct but it doesn't make it a desperate move because S Jax is better than Turner by a pretty decent margin. We sign S Jax to a 3 year contract and pick up Lattimore this year or better wait until next year to get a RB then you give him a ye ar to develop similar to how NYG did with David Wilson and then next year he comes in as the starter or splitting carries with Rodgers.

Its also possible that if S Jax comes in looking better that we could wait 2 years to get a RB and you're not losing any time with him. Here are the positions we need to fix and get younger at or develop:

DE
DT
CB
RB
OG/RT
LB

All of that is not going to be handled in one season. You have to pick your spots.

ATLBound · 02-26-2013, 08:19 PM

(02-26-2013 08:01 PM)Aftermath Wrote: I agree completely, our D is getting old as fuck and it is going to start to cost us (I think it has already) If we did bring in a vet I'd prefer SJ over Freeney and Osi for that very reason. We can't keep adding more age to an aging defense, that's a recipe for disaster. At the same time we aren't likely to get a guy at 30 that will come in a have an instant impact on defense unless we draft a LB. If we spend money on a FA RB & TE (TG & SJ) it would be tantamount in my mind to saying "fuck it, can't improve the D this year, lets just try to outscore everyone" I wouldn't really mind that approach except we have the wrong HC to pull it off.

I agree with this whole statement but I think Koetter has begun to turn Mike Smith into a go getter. Look at the two first halfs of our two playoff games.

Full of deep passes and strikes. Quick scores and more scoring. The Seattle game where Matt threw the bad interception was second half our territory. Risky playcall. Its not the same as previous years where Smith knew Turner was the shoulder to lean on. I dont think we give Mike Smith enough credit for the change.

Now imagine if we had S Jax instead of Turner in the second half of those games.

In the 49ers game the bobbled snap came on 3rd and short. I put more trust in S Jax to get that than I do Turner. A lot of things change when Turner's presence doesn't make it easier for the defense to know what's coming.

Aftermath · 02-26-2013, 08:35 PM

(02-26-2013 08:19 PM)ATLBound Wrote: I agree with this whole statement but I think Koetter has begun to turn Mike Smith into a go getter. Look at the two first halfs of our two playoff games.

Full of deep passes and strikes. Quick scores and more scoring. The Seattle game where Matt threw the bad interception was second half our territory. Risky playcall. Its not the same as previous years where Smith knew Turner was the shoulder to lean on. I dont think we give Mike Smith enough credit for the change.

Now imagine if we had S Jax instead of Turner in the second half of those games.

In the 49ers game the bobbled snap came on 3rd and short. I put more trust in S Jax to get that than I do Turner. A lot of things change when Turner's presence doesn't make it easier for the defense to know what's coming.

I agree, but at the same time you have to look at the second half of each of those two games, and the second half of our last 4 playoff games. 17 points in the 2nd half of our last 4 playoff games, we my have played lights out in the first but our 2nd half record is just atrocious.

I'm not saying I don't want to get rid of Turner, I wanted to get rid of him after 2010 in favor of a back that can both run and catch. But at the same time I don't think that getting rid of one 30 year old back in favor of another is exactly taking a step forward. I think we can get a back later in the draft that can do both of those things (at a fraction of the cost). Not to mention the fact that Jizz had more receptions for more yards in 2012 than SJ has had in any year other than 2006. 2006 is the year everyone remembers for SJ but he hasn't come close to being the same back since. I think he is good, but he isn't a world beater and I don't think that he would be the missing piece that puts us over the top.

***phocis850*** · 02-26-2013, 08:55 PM

(02-26-2013 07:52 PM)Aftermath Wrote: When it comes to value and building a winning team FA is absolutely the worst place to find a RB.

Michael Turner

Did you forget about him?

ATLBound · 02-26-2013, 08:56 PM

(02-26-2013 08:35 PM)Aftermath Wrote: I agree, but at the same time you have to look at the second half of each of those two games, and the second half of our last 4 playoff games. 17 points in the 2nd half of our last 4 playoff games, we my have played lights out in the first but our 2nd half record is just atrocious.

I'm not saying I don't want to get rid of Turner, I wanted to get rid of him after 2010 in favor of a back that can both run and catch. But at the same time I don't think that getting rid of one 30 year old back in favor of another is exactly taking a step forward. I think we can get a back later in the draft that can do both of those things (at a fraction of the cost). Not to mention the fact that Jizz had more receptions for more yards in 2012 than SJ has had in any year other than 2006. 2006 is the year everyone remembers for SJ but he hasn't come close to being the same back since. I think he is good, but he isn't a world beater and I don't think that he would be the missing piece that puts us over the top.

I hear you. Ultimately it comes down to proven production with cost concerns versus low costs with the risk of not performing as needed.

My concern is that rookie doesn't perform as needed because we are at that point worst than last year. The thing that gets lost is that Turner rarely fumbled and he was great in pass protection. We would need AT LEAST that with a rookie. We know we have that in S Jax and more. But I do see where you are coming from

***phocis850*** · 02-26-2013, 08:57 PM

You also don't want a rookie and a 2 year old back with no veteran leadership to follow.

Mike Peterson did wonders for the LB's.

mdrake34 · 02-26-2013, 09:07 PM

(02-26-2013 08:57 PM)phocis850 Wrote: You also don't want a rookie and a 2 year old back with no veteran leadership to follow.

Mike Peterson did wonders for the LB's.

Aftermath · 02-26-2013, 09:11 PM

(02-26-2013 08:55 PM)phocis850 Wrote: Michael Turner

Did you forget about him?

Your point?

In terms of pure value we still overpaid for Turner, especially the last 2 years. Had SD used him as a feature back on his rookie contract they would have gotten the most value out of him. even during his best years with us he was making around 3.5 M a year, a nice sum of money compared to what rookie RBs are making, especially now that we have a rookie wage scale. The Rams got the max value out of Jackson during his first 4 years in the league, he has been vastly overpaid ever since.

Aftermath · 02-26-2013, 09:15 PM

(02-26-2013 08:57 PM)phocis850 Wrote: You also don't want a rookie and a 2 year old back with no veteran leadership to follow.

Mike Peterson did wonders for the LB's.

again, its RB; not QB, WR, LB, CB, Safety, etc. perhaps the easiest position in football where a rookie can come in and make an immediate impact. Snelling is just a few months younger than Jackson, that should be plenty of leadership right there. We have enough veteran leadership in the locker room where we don't have to overpay a RB with too many miles on his tires to come in and play the part of mentor.